[Aether Audio]

Friends,

Well...it looks like we have a little "confirmation" here after all.  Check it out:

http://huehueteotl.wordpress.com/2007/07/06/659/

  Next, check out my comments in the previous thread:

What is both totally surprising to me and as far as I'm concerned, a "feather in my cap," is that what I predicted below falls EXACTLY in line with Hawksford's paper/theory.  Unbeknownst to me, I had "theorized" virtually everything that Hawksford is discussing all before I ever became aware of his paper.  I just discovered this paper on the web 2 days ago and I am still in awe.  He even goes on to "predict" vortices or "whirlpools" of current forming in the conductor. 

I take it a step further and say that, due to the "curl" of electrons traveling through the magnetic field within the cables (commonly known to take place in free space), that these currents form spiral paths back and forth down the length of a conductor.  These spiral paths look like sine waves when viewed orthogonally and constitute the "standing waves" or resonances that I have discussed/predicted.  These resonances decay in magnitude and time exponentially, just like the reverberation in a room decays after you slap your hands  Hawksford goes on to even use this same analogy!

My comments above were based on the assumption of round conductors.  Flat conductors would be expected to exhibit behavior more like that demonstrated in the article/link above.  Surely my "vision" of what is going on in conductors is bound to be somewhat different than that of the real physics, but nevertheless... it appears that I was closer to being correct than not.

I find it interesting that a "transducer" of some sort was required to detect these "ACOUSTIC Plasmon waves" - a very sensitive transducer to be sure!  Now...what do you suppose a highly accurate (i.e., exhibiting a very high degree of "resolution") loudspeaker is?  Contrast that to claims made by Karsten, Double-Ugly and many others regarding the high "sensitivity" of SP Tech speakers to upstream equipment and cables.  Do you suppose there might be a connection?

While my vanity is sufficient to say that "I love it when I'm right" - it is far more rewarding to me as well as important and valuable to others when I find I have been "correct."

Any comments?

-Bob



-Bob

[Double Ugly]

Any comments?

Yeah.  Why'd you sign your name twice?   

Seriously, I remember you trying to explain this to me ... I don't know ... must've been something like 9-12 months ago.  You spoke of waves transmitting down the length of the cable in a manner similar to the way waves move after dropping a pebble in a lake, and how the waves affect the sound of the cable if they aren't properly controlled. 

You did good, eh?   

-Jim

[Bill Baker]

Any comments?

 No, but do have a question. So, when will the foil speaker cables be available.

[TONEPUB]

I guess I'm always suspect of people that DO say all cables sound alike...

[Big Red Machine]

I'm amazed at the number of educated fellows who refuse to believe their ears.  It takes meonly seconds to note adiffeence in sound in a cable and then after a few minutes I can determine exactly what it is I am hearing based on response in the low-mid-high, soundstage details, etc.

[ctviggen]

You must have better hearing and a better short term memory than I.  For instance, when comparing DACs and/or the outputs of a Squeeze Box, I had to play tracks over and over and over again in order to determine which one was better.  Now, that's with comparisons where the output had to be adjusted in order to have the same SPL at the listening position. 

[Double Ugly]

So, when will the foil speaker cables be available.

I doubt he knows.

Believe it or not, as of just a few days ago, Bob was STILL waiting for the shipment from Mundorf. 

It probably goes without saying, but Bob was NOT happy when we spoke!  Several customers are waiting for speakers they've already paid for in part or in full (including me), and the longer it takes, the worse it makes Bob (and by association, SP Tech) look.  That's especially true with first-time customers, but unfortunately there's no second chance to make a first impression.   

More importantly, the longer he goes without being able to build the ordered speakers, the longer he goes without the remaining 50% of the money from each sale.  SP Technology is Bob's sole source of income, so he has every reason to want to build speakers - and speaker cables - as soon as possible.

You must have better hearing and a better short term memory than I.  For instance, when comparing DACs and/or the outputs of a Squeeze Box, I had to play tracks over and over and over again in order to determine which one was better.  Now, that's with comparisons where the output had to be adjusted in order to have the same SPL at the listening position. 

You mentioned your experience with DACs, but are you implying the same is true for cables?

-Jim

[Karsten]

You must have better hearing and a better short term memory than I.  For instance, when comparing DACs and/or the outputs of a Squeeze Box, I had to play tracks over and over and over again in order to determine which one was better.  Now, that's with comparisons where the output had to be adjusted in order to have the same SPL at the listening position. 

I had a friend over today, we tested some XLR cables and two versions of the same type, but slightly differently modified amplifiers, no real test took more than a couple of minutes, at the most, and we both totally agreed on what we heard. One set of interconnects made us both laugh at the same time

These Revelations are extremely accurate...

Karsten

[Double Ugly]

These Revelations are extremely accurate...

No doubt.  I can't wait to hear mine! 

Even so, I submit that my 2.1s are fairly accurate as well, even sans Mundorf parts and T-line bass/lower mids.  As much as I can hear now, and as accurate as everything sounds, I have trouble imagining what it'll be like with the Revelations.

-Jim

[Aether Audio]

Friends,

DU sums it up.

It probably goes without saying, but Bob was NOT happy when we spoke!  Several customers are waiting for speakers they've already paid for in part or in full (including me), and the longer it takes, the worse it makes Bob (and by association, SP Tech) look.  That's especially true with first-time customers, but unfortunately there's no second chance to make a first impression.   

More importantly, the longer he goes without being able to build the ordered speakers, the longer he goes without the remaining 50% of the money from each sale.  SP Technology is Bob's sole source of income, so he has every reason to want to build speakers - and speaker cables - as soon as possible.

All the more so as now I'm stoked about the cables!!!  The design is done...I've calculated all the impedance issues (thanks jneutron!) and tweaked the variables until everything falls in place...according to the SCIENCE.  Now...with this latest Acoustic Plasmon Wave discovery...I know the rest of the design isn't based on "pixie dust" either.  Can't wait to get started!

It still hasn't completely hit me.  I'm not trying to blow my own  horn here - believe me.  I'm totally psyched!!!  Obviously others had thought of this new conductor physics long before I did or they wouldn't have been doing the research to prove it.  But I didn't know that.  Heck, I didn't even know about Hawksford's paper (errors and all) either.  I found it AFTER I came up with the idea. 

Can you imagine...a hack like me coming up with something so profound... totally independently?  It's freaking me out.  Yeah, I came up with some pretty good twists on speaker design, but the basic physics for that stuff has been around for almost a century.  SP Tech doesn't even have any business being in business.  Somebody should have came up with the ideas I've used in speaker design a long time ago.  But this cable thing...that's totally new.

Don't get me wrong...speakers are still cool and I still enjoy designing them.  But I don't really consider what I've done there to be all that original.  The cables though?  Yeah baby!

-Bob

[Double Ugly]

Don't get me wrong...speakers are still cool and I still enjoy designing them.  But I don't really consider what I've done there to be all that original. 

Hmmm.  Maybe not, but if what you've done isn't "all that original," why do they sound so different (read better) than other speakers?

Something positive is happening there, Bob, and IME it isn't widely duplicated.

-Jim

[jneutron]

Well...it looks like we have a little "confirmation" here after all.  Check it out.....

This is "old hat".  Surface plasmons have been around for a while, here's a more recent link (from 2005).  It details how plasmons were used to image structures that were below the wavelength limits of the optical microscope.

http://focus.aps.org/story/v15/st3

Note also that it uses a fluid which had a huge index of refraction, meaning the optical dielectric coefficient was in the 50 or so range, giving a much slower prop velocity and subsequently, a much shorter wavelength. For this reason, I early on questioned whether or not plasmons were truly involved.

This technique of altering the speed of light to effect smaller wavelengths (immersion lithography) is being used presently to get semiconductor feature size down from the 192 nanomenter node, to 35 nanometer (Intel) and 45 nanometer (AMD).

However, the invokation of "surface plasmons" as an explanation towards an understanding of how a signal travels along a transmission line, is quite incorrect.  Read the cited article again, note two very key words..

1.  Size of the effect is in nanometers.  That is the spacing of the atoms in the material.

2.  Femptoseconds.   That is how long the effect lasts.  The speed of light is one foot per nanosecond.  That is 1/1000th of a foot per picosecond, or 1/1000000 of a foot per femptosecond.  One millionth of a foot at the speed of light affects audio signals how??  Again, you are talking atomic scale distance and speeds.

While it's really cool and sexy to speculate on this stuff, once the level of effect is understood, invokation of surface plasmons to explain cables is just as questionable as what Malcolm did.

As you are learning, Maxwell's equations are all that you need to design your cables, and I was happy to provide the analysis for your use.

What IS the crux of the matter is....what design goals do you want for your product line...  Far too many "cable designers" either make up garbage, or borrow other's made up garbage.  I am extremely pleased that YOU, BOB, have set your design goals and are using EXACT analytical methods to achieve those goals.  Not too many do that.

I wish you well with your cable line..it will be great to see any correlation between the parametric goals defined for your cables, and user feedback..

Cheers, John

[Aether Audio]

DING!!!   End of round two.



Once again Bob gets his ass kicked by the MAN!!!  Thanks John...for nut'n.  You must enjoy raining on people's parade.   No really, thanks.  At the end of the day, sanity must prevail in any universe I want to be part of.

Still...I wonder.  Could the plasmons "gang up" in sort of a domino effect?  Especially if being driven by a current pulse?  OK, I'll shut up now. 

Oh yeah...THANKS!!! A compliment like that from someone like you is truly an honor.  In fact, I might just make a plaque with your quote on it and hang it on my wall.  I couldn't ask for more from anybody (except maybe payment if they buy my cables  )

Best wishes!
-Bob

PS.  God... I hate being ignorant.

[jneutron]

PS.  God... I hate being ignorant.

We are all ignorant in many things. Personally, I am ignorant as to proper operation of a stanley bostitch model B440 wire forming apparatus...too many moving parts. As well as a microplanar cheese grater..they are dangerous in untrained hands..

Reading the work of others and then speculation as to what it means in application to real life, is the essence of advancement in science.  Make no apologies for "what if's".  They are necessary.

The problem I see in much of audio stems from blind acceptance of unfounded speculation, and rejection of facts which do not agree with that unfounded speculation.  You do not suffer that.

Cheers, John

[xsb7244]

Bob,
read about your impressive background regarding power amplifiers. that knowledge should not go to
waste.  we need moderate cost quality solid state amplifiers.  can you produce any in the future?