Best Capacitor in the World! You Will Be Surprised!!! Capacitors

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #40 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 05:06 pm »

Pat,

I removed your next-to-last hurl at Daryl...this one addresses things a little more pointedly, so I'll allow it for now.

But, everybody needs to be a bit more civil to one another...this is, after all, a goddamned discussion on $^&)#@<!! capacitors - not anything world-changing. Let's remember we're all human beings behind the expanse that is the internet and we'll all be allright.

Thanks, John

Occam · « **Reply #41 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 06:19 pm »

Hi Norbert,

Now look at what you've stirred up

I've used other European industrial mylars in signal coupling and been very impressed. As this thread originated in the 'Industry' section, as a vendor, you're permitted some hyperbole, and as your comments were subjective, who am I to argue? Dunno if you're 'having us on', just a bit, but regardless, I certainly appreciate your informing us of a low cost option.Even for those among us who believe that beyond some minimal measurable criteria, incremental expenditures are wasted, I really don't see many lower cost options worth obscessing over.

My current favorite 'bang for the buck' signal capacitors are the polypropolene film, Jantzen Standard Z-cap, which Paul Hilgeman told us about -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41802.0
which is priced quite similarly to those Vishays-
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-261
and for their volatage rating of 400vdc are actually cheaper.

While I do prefer some of the more bespoke capacitors for signal coupling, I have no problem endorsing the mylars I have used, as well as the Jantzens. IMO, they're a substantial improvements in what is found in much of the 'high end', and given their cost really shouldn't get anyone's knickers in a twist.

FWIW,
Paul

Daygloworange · « **Reply #42 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 06:24 pm »

Those were the kind of elaborations I was hoping to read more of in this thread.

Thank you, to both Pat and John Curl, and anyone else who may elaborate their opinions.

I think it's important to understand that a lot of people that have a passion for audio have just a meager grasp on the complexities of electronics, and we're just looking for a little better understanding, no matter where their convictions lay.

I have no emotional investment in the this or that aspects of electronics, just a desire to understand better, in order to be better achieve my system goal requirements.

As such, I welcome all discussion and point of views. History has shown that a lot of times, a lot of the parties involved come away being exposed to something that they were not aware of.

Again, Thanks!

Cheers

rollo · « **Reply #43 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 07:44 pm »

For us its the V-cap Teflon. Not inexpensive but worth every penny. You gets what you pay for in this case. For polystyrene try the caps from Eastern Electric , you may be glad you did.

rollo

NagysAudio · « **Reply #44 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 11:49 pm »

Hi Paul,

I'm not having you guys "On," however it is entertaining to read all the posts and arguments

I must say, the Vishay MKT 1822's sound better than Teflon capacitors. Yes, Teflon capacitors measure better, they have less distortion, they're much more reliable and they have a superior dielectric. Knowing all this I say, "So what?"

Teflon caps are definitely better in state of the art defense systems, telecommunications, radars, aerospace, precision measuring equipment, etc. But for audio, I like the Vishays. I have not heard a sweeter, crisper, 3D sound from any other cap. You guys should try them and then post your reviews, they only cost a few bucks at most!

They have everything audiophiles search for, it is the holy grail of capacitors. You want virtually no grain? These caps are it. You want ultra extended high end? Yup, Vishays got it. Dynamic range? The best I've heard. What about bass? Wait till you hear it!

Here's a little more info on the equipment that I use. One of my favorite tweeters at any price is the Hiquphon OWII. I built many speakers with them and I can't get enough. For woofers, I like to use Gorlich 5" drivers. Once I heard how dynamic, clear and fast they sound I have not been able to listen to anything else. They might be the hardest woofers on the planet to get. I'm always looking to find something better and more readily available, but I just can't! (if you guys know of anything that sounds like the Gorlich let me know!) For amplifier, I love the Goldmund Mimesis 3, preamp is Goldmund Mimesis 2, DAC is the Goldmund Mimesis 10.

Norbert

john curl · « **Reply #45 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 02:12 am »

Norbert, have you determined WHY these ERO caps sound so good? Just good luck? Maybe, smooths over the rough edges? I admit that Teflon is not for the timid or the typical audio component, but it does sound better in my phono eq. Perhaps, only in that position, it really excels.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #46 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 03:26 am »

Quote from: john curl on 6 Jul 2007, 02:12 am

I admit that Teflon is not for the timid or the typical audio component, but it does sound better in my phono eq. Perhaps, only in that position, it really excels.

I don't own any phono equipment, but Teflon caps (Sonicap Platinums, specifically) are amazing with other equipment, too (DACs, transports, speakers).

The Placette Audio RVC I owned had Vishays throughout and performed exceptionally well, but the Vishays are not superior to properly employed Sonicap Platinums IME. A lot probably depends on how and where the caps are used.

-Jim

Jon L · « **Reply #47 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 03:44 am »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 6 Jul 2007, 03:26 am

The Placette Audio RVC I owned had Vishays throughout and performed exceptionally well, but the Vishays are not superior to properly employed Sonicap Platinums IME. A lot probably depends on how and where the caps are used.

-Jim

Hmm. I thought Placette RVC used Vishay S102 RESISTORS everywhere, not Vishay capacitors.

Heck, I'll try the Vishay polyester caps at some point, mainly b/c my wonderful Almarro A205mkII amp comes with polyester coupling caps, which must be doing something right

Bill Baker · « **Reply #48 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 01:44 pm »

Norbert wrote:

Quote

Vishay MKT-1822............They have everything audiophiles search for, it is the holy grail of capacitors. You want virtually no grain? These caps are it. You want ultra extended high end? Yup, Vishays got it. Dynamic range? The best I've heard. What about bass? Wait till you hear it!

Norbert, I am curious what application(s) you have used these capacitors in. I only ask because the have limited values available in higher voltages above 100V - 200V.

I am not one to dismiss any passive component based on it's inexpensive price. I have always believed that it is sometimes the most unorthodox combination of components that yield the best results.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #49 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: Jon L on 6 Jul 2007, 03:44 am

Hmm. I thought Placette RVC used Vishay S102 RESISTORS everywhere, not Vishay capacitors.

As far as I know, you're correct. The second part of my response was/is poorly worded. It should convey only that I've owned and used products with Vishays, not that I've used Vishay capacitors.

The first sentence (which remains accurate IME) is more to the point of the response anyway. I should've stopped there.

-Jim

richidoo · « **Reply #50 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 06:27 pm »

Mouser has some MKT1822 rated up to 400V. Not all stocked though.

Great post, although I have only read the beginning and the end, and saw the clamp for bad behavior. Is it safe to venture into the middle?

Rich

john curl · « **Reply #51 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 07:22 pm »

Some Mylar caps sound pretty good. Other factors are: lead material, termination to the cap body, and mechanical self-resonance. Some Teflon caps are lousy sounding.

Imperial · « **Reply #52 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 09:15 pm »

Blue Circle's Gilbert Yeung has a really strong lead on his own "blue puck" caps. (They are electrolytic but...)
I believe his reason is what you describe.
Duelund Coherent Audio has some new caps that are tank like in construction for the same reason.

Its called the Duelund vsf (virtual stack foil) cast pio capacitor I believe, huge size, speaker use mainly.
Its paper in oil, the paper is wrapped together with silver or copper foil and encased in wax and the sealed in a solid container and cast solid.

That's a source of distortion, a weak lead going out of the cap, I believe.

Imperial

TjMV3 · « **Reply #53 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 09:18 pm »

Question.

What's the deal with Jensen's paper/in oil caps?

I find it odd how I hear from some people that they make the best sounding caps, but I don't recall any manufactors who use their caps, in their gear?

Is all hype? Or are they too expensive, so manufactors don;t use them?

Imperial · « **Reply #54 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 09:26 pm »

Some do. Singlepower for one, off the top of my head.
But, I believe the choice of capacitor is a part of the "voicing" process.
The designer eventually settles for the one he or she thinks makes the sound what it needs to be.

The Moth headset amp uses a cap made for that amp only, isn't found in any other amp at all!
Lately you have several manufacturers that make their own caps, maybe the reason is to get a result somewhat in between what is otherwise available.

B.A.T does this, ModWright, CJ? think so, Rotel makes their own, Rey Kinoshita does this
and others.

Imperial

Bill Baker · « **Reply #55 on:** 6 Jul 2007, 11:47 pm »

Quote

What's the deal with Jensen's paper/in oil caps?

I find it odd how I hear from some people that they make the best sounding caps, but I don't recall any manufactures who use their caps, in their gear?

Is all hype? Or are they too expensive, so manufactures don;t use them?

Jensen makes a fine PIO capacitor. I think one of the reasons many OEMs don't use them is due to their potential for leakage within a year's time. I have not yet experienced any problems in the few products I have custom modified with them but I have heard this from many others. You can understand how this would effect their decision. Especially for warranty consideration.

Some companies, such as Cary's AES products, offers them as an upgrade option.

I do like good PIO's such as the Jensen, Audio Note and others but don't prefer them. I find they lack that last bit of extension at the frequency extremes. At this time, my ultimate capacitor hunt is over.

richidoo · « **Reply #56 on:** 7 Jul 2007, 12:30 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 6 Jul 2007, 11:47 pm

At this time, my ultimate capacitor hunt is over.

BILL!! Please don't leave us in suspense! What is your favorite? You must use magic caps to get that sound.
Rich

zybar · « **Reply #57 on:** 7 Jul 2007, 12:32 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 7 Jul 2007, 12:30 am

Quote from: Response Audio on 6 Jul 2007, 11:47 pm
At this time, my ultimate capacitor hunt is over.

BILL!! Please don't leave us in suspense! What is your favorite? You must use magic caps to get that sound.
Rich

If you look at Bill's Extreme product line, it is pretty obvious what his favorite cap is... aa

George

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #58 on:** 7 Jul 2007, 12:39 am »

Here is a quote from Bill's web site:

"You will not find $0.99 cent coupling capacitors or .04 cent resistors in any of the key areas of the circuitry, only the highest grade V-Cap and SoniCap Teflon capacitors as well as AuriCap capacitors are used in both the coupling and power supply bypass locations."

Bill Baker · « **Reply #59 on:** 7 Jul 2007, 01:02 am »

Yes, a venture through my websites makes it obvious what I prefer. Everyone who knows me has known this for some time. I didn't want to mention names in this thread as I refuse to get involved in the "capacitor depate" just as I won't get involved in debates about cabling, tubes, break-in, Bybees, shampoo, toothpaste ................ you get the idea, I don't get involved in debates

They never solve or prove anything.

I won't say that there aren't some nice, inexpensive capacitors out there but none that I have experimented with has ever given me the what I wanted in my products or modifications.