[Toka]

Gooberdude,

If you have a good vac, the KAB model is the way to go. Nothing to wear out/break on it, really, and you won't have the motor right in your face. Sure, its more labor intensive than the spendy automatics that do both sides at once, etc., but they both vacuum fluid off the record in the end.

[lcrim]

Regarding the addition of mold release agents to vinyl in the manufacturing process, I emailed Stan Ricker and with his consent, I am posting his reply below.  Stan Ricker is a well known mastering engineer with a long background in record production.

Hi, Larry--------------

I've not ever been able to reach a solid conclusion in my own mind
about this "issue".
At one time, I wrote to the head of production of RimTec Vinyl about the
use of "mold release" in record vinyl, if it existed, and, if so, what's
its chemical composition.
Needless to say, I never received an answer.........

In my experience, I've never seen a record more clean than when it first
comes off the press------which is how they're sound-checked for QC;----
to run something direct from the press to a cleaning bath before checking
wouldn't be within the realm of possibility or practicality.

On the other hand, I've gotten tons of TestPressings [and Production]
stuff that's scroungy as hell; real stylus damage could happen if the disk weren't
cleaned first............

I think that, insofar as the Chemistry of record vinyl is concerned, you
would be FAR better off chatting with the Disc Doctor,[Dr. Duane Goldman] who REALLY knows his stuff,
and can put this subject in its proper light.

Cheers,
Stan
SR/2

[lazydays]

I leave my lid on. The dust it keeps off the record is more valuable than any extraneous vibration the lid incurs.

just remove the lid during playback. On my final tool I have a silk cloth over it when it's not in use. Every few months I have the cloth cleaned.
gary

[lazydays]

Since the importance of the Cleaning Machine seems to be fairly paramount, does anyone have experience with the EV-1 that KAB sells?      I sold my Nitty Gritty 1.0 and plan to get the EV-1...it appears to be the same top plate as the 1.0, and i was more than happy with the performance of the 1.0...just not the price.


$150 for the EV-1 sounds like a good deal.   some of the DIY efforts/recipes, like from Jimmy Neutron, cost a bit more even.


hopefully this isn't too OT.

I have a VPI 16.5, but find that I almost never use it anymore. It's great for cleaning LP's that have been deep cleaned just to get the surface crud and dust. I might add that if you clean LP's with a brush, don't do it for any length of time as that will build up static on the surface. Yet when I deep clean an LP it will always turn up during the first couple of plays.
gary

[TheChairGuy]

tvad4,

Just buy one o' dem' Stanton/Pickering or Shure's with the dust bug attached...viola, consistently cleaned records without fuss or sonic degradation of the lid on (which, all foo-foo aside, I have found it to be fairly deleterious to sonics).

I love the XLZ-7500s - still on sale for $250.00 at Pickering UK last I checked. Only 3ohms of resistance let's all the music thru nearly un-impeded.

Besides, once the deeply imbedded grunge is vacuumed up in some way, and a carbon fibre brush sweeps your record beforehand....I sincerely doubt that additional dust will settle in the grooves in 20 minutes and forever pollute your formerly-pristine LP. 

To each is own, of course.... 

[Scott F.]

At one time, I wrote to the head of production of RimTec Vinyl about the
use of "mold release" in record vinyl, if it existed, and, if so, what's
its chemical composition.
Needless to say, I never received an answer.........

Hi Larry,

Duane eluded to this same thing on the phone yesterday. Apparently the vinyl formulations are well kept secrets held only by the production managers at the plants. One can only guess its because of the competitive nature between the various plants. Duane also mentioned that that even though a company may have an 'official' formulation, depending on where the sourced PVC pellets come from, the plant manager has the ability to alter the 'fillers' as he sees fit. Aparently not all PVC pellets are created equally.

According to Duane (again), there are (or maybe it should be 'was'), a very limited number of PVC pellet plants that offer the type of raw materials suitable for records. He said there were 2 in the US, 1 in Germany, 1 in Russia and another in central Europe somewhere. He thought that the two in Europe were owned by BASF. He also said that it has only been in the past few years (with the vinyl resurgence) that the plants have started trying to improve on the PVC pellets formulation. They are trying to get something a little more tailored to the pressing of LP's.

Hey Larry, you ought to give Duane a call. He's a fascinating guy to talk to. That guy has so much knowledge about record production industry (the materials side of it) and is connected to so many along the manufacturing chain, its almost scary. He only hints at it but I think he is providing cleaners and brushes to many (if not the majority) of the pressing and metal mastering plants around the globe.

Stan is a great guy too. He's another one that will talk your arm off if you get him on the right subject 

[gooberdude]

Nice PA!!!!     virgin cherry extract.     that's actually a bit gross to ponder....

My idea of using an oxygenated cleaner is out the window if indeed MRC is real...most of the LP's i buy are brand new.    Probably best to go with a cleaning fluid system from a known mfgr.


Tvad, sorry to keep harping but this funny...   if you find putting air in your bike ties improves your rides, try spinning wax with the lid off and see what happens.        similar results, a bigger smile!!!      no disrespect whatsoever....   

In addition to nasty vibes, there are soundwaves bouncing off the needle then off the lid then back into the microphone, i meant to say stylus.   this may be minimal compared to the damage that the symapthetic vibrations the lid impart, but worth mentioning.

[Listens2tubes]

Since the importance of the Cleaning Machine seems to be fairly paramount, does anyone have experience with the EV-1 that KAB sells?      I sold my Nitty Gritty 1.0 and plan to get the EV-1...it appears to be the same top plate as the 1.0, and i was more than happy with the performance of the 1.0...just not the price.


$150 for the EV-1 sounds like a good deal.   some of the DIY efforts/recipes, like from Jimmy Neutron, cost a bit more even.


hopefully this isn't too OT.

I love my EV-1, it does a superb job and is one thing that didn't smash my budget.

[gooberdude]

what vacuum cleaner do you use??    i need a new one anyway, and searching the Vinyl Asylum archives its pretty unanimous that our in-house Hoover rep is correct that the cans suck better.

i really enjoy being young and able to use phrases like 'suck better'.

[TheChairGuy]

what vacuum cleaner do you use??    i need a new one anyway, and searching the Vinyl Asylum archives its pretty unanimous that our in-house Hoover rep is correct that the cans suck better.

I really enjoy being young and able to use phrases like 'suck better'.

I was able to use the term more fluently when I worked for Hoover/Singer, too.  Like...how's business? - it sucks, but that's the good news! (ta-da-ta )

I use an old Singer 2-stage canister - long out of production. Sears traditionally had the best selection of canisters....two-stage will sometimes be mentioned on it's specs.  You probably need to fork over $250+ to get one these days, but they are usually quieter at that price level and above, as well.

Any of these over $250.00 should have more powerful suction than any upright, and quieter than the vast majority of them:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/subcat.do?vertical=APPL&cat=Vacuum+Cleaners+%26+Floor+Care&subcat=Canister+Vacuums&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

[Listens2tubes]

I'm using an ancient, whining Eurica canister. I added a foot pedal-style switch and am planning a noise damping cover. This vacuum was given to us when my inlaws moved to an apartment. We have a built-in which I used one time, a real pain jumping over to the hose to unplug it between record sides. The Eurika realy sucks (does a great job) with the EV-1 and on the carpet of my S10.

[WGH]

TCG is right (again). Sears vacs are terrific. I have one with a HEPA filter and the house stays much cleaner with no sneezing. My VPI 16.5 is louder than the Sears too.

[TheChairGuy]

I don't know who builds them (the canisters) for Sears...for decades Whirlpool did most of them.  That may or may not be the case any more.  Times change.....

[Toka]

I'd love to see David Oreck waltz out in one of this infomercials and have an EV-1 on the 'table waiting for the big showdown..

[TheChairGuy]

I'd love to see David Oreck waltz out in one of this infomercials and have an EV-1 on the 'table waiting for the big showdown..

What a cocky dick that guy is/was...I met him at Southampton Vac in Southampton, LI (NY) nearly 20 years ago. All he did was brag, preen and try to show off in front of me...the then (impressionable and wide-eyed) 26 year old Hoover rep for the area. Today, I'd probably go and tell him to go scratch his bag 

His stuff is very overpriced...you are paying for a lot of TV spots when you buy an Oreck. Hoover sold him the design for that little, bowling ball sucking, canister (remember those TV spots) 25 years ago.  It was called the Porta-Power (the original one, not the version II that they later came out with) back then.  It works very, very well for a little canister.  As does the competing Mighty Mite from Eureka from that era.  Neither is that loud, either, and they are cheap.

There ya' go (for bare floors only...and use with EV-1's  )
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOOVER-PORTAPOWER-PORTA-POWER-VACUUM-S1015-COMPLETE-VGC_W0QQitemZ130129016231QQihZ003QQcategoryZ115981QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's one potentially even better...I didn't know that Hoover was still making these for the commercial division.  That tells you how tuff they are - they've been made and offered for over 30 years in Hoover's commercial division:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hoover-C2094-Porta-Power-Lightweight-Canister-Vacuum_W0QQitemZ180134556305QQihZ008QQcategoryZ115981QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

One of the nicest things is that they both SUCK and BLOW 

[Toka]

Do I get a free iron if I bid on the auction? 

[gooberdude]

David Oreck sucks.    now that's funny   


The color of one of the cheaper canisters avail at Sears is Guacamole!  its about the 6th or 7th one down.

Imagine how tough it'd be to sell a new car that's colored guac...i luv the stuff but it still sounds unappetizing.   

[Scott F.]

My idea of using an oxygenated cleaner is out the window if indeed MRC is real...most of the LP's i buy are brand new.    Probably best to go with a cleaning fluid system from a known mfgr.

Goob,

Heres some thoughts about what you can do with your EV-1.

I got frustrated one day after cleaning a bunch of vinyl on a coffee table and having it slide all over the place. I decided to make a dedicated LP cleaning station. I remembered I had an old, cheap TV stand in a storage closet that I thought would make a good good platform to start with. Then I took a crappy old Hitachi turntable, pulled the bearing off and mounted it and the platter into the top shelf of the TV Stand. I then took some velcro and fastened the EV-1 to the top of the TV stand.

I found a portable vacuum at a garage sale for (like) three bucks that sucks like crazy and I mounted it on the second shelf. After that I took a hole saw and and cut a hole for the vacuum hose and connected it to the EV-1. The last thing I did was cut a spare piece of 1/4 plywood added hinges and made a door to cover up the noisy vacuum. I need to put some proper damping material in there to quiet it down some more but the way it is, it cut the noise level of the vacuum in half.

To trim it out I added a few wire pencil and paper clip holders to use to hold the cleaning solutions and brushes. Then I added a nice LED light so I can see what I'm doing. It works like a champ and I'd bet I don't have $200 in it including the cost of the EV-1.






Oh, the MRC is very real. Every piece of vinyl has it in it. The cleaning solution you need to settle on must be able to remove that waxy material. Unfortunately alcohol based products won't sufficiently solutionize those salts to a point where they can be removed. I should clarify that a little bit. According to Duane, alcohol will start to break down that waxy substance if the alcohol is heated. He said even heated, it will never fully solutionize the salts. What happens is that you end up pushing the wax around the surface of the vinyl, never really removing it. A secondary effect of the alcohol is that if left on the vinyl too long, it will start to leach the plasticizers from the record, eventually making it brittle and prone to excessive wear.

You ought to give him a buzz.

Enjoy!

[gooberdude]

That is SO cool Scott, thanks for sharing it.     i have something like that in mind if i can find a cheap dedicated vacuum...if not, a new canister vac is it.   Incorporating the old TT is crafty.  i'm sold on the EV-1 for sure, but what you have looks like treasure.    your set-up seems much better than many, or any of the DIY rcm recipes i've read about...for the same $. 

Why haven't you put the blue light on it yet?        its certainly worthy.


i've tried to stay away from alchohol based cleaners ever since using the orig bottle from Nitty Gritty that came with my 1.0...i never liked the smell and soon after read a lot of guys' discomfort with alchohol based cleaners.    the only MRC cleaner i've used is from Osage products, but this next go around i'll probably give RRL fluids a shot.  no real reason, just to try other flava's.   So glad my previous $8 contribution towards MRC removal was not in vain...i wish other fluid vendors sold mini kits.


i'd like to use my Alsop Orbitrac with an MRC remover 1st rather than doing that step on an RCM...haven't tried this though..     its easy to comprehend how all the gunk on LP's (new or used, MRC or grease, whatever) gets on the RCM felt piece and literally gets passed onto all future LP's to be cleaned.    i've gone from being anal to carefree in terms of cleaning, and everywhere in between.   I like the idea of pre-cleaning with something like the Orbitrac to stave off the transmission of dirt from LP to LP, while at the same time tryin' to keep it simple and not too many steps involved.

I hope everyone enjoys their surface noise on the day off tomorrow!    our forefathers would want it that way.

I miss the VP Fair fireworks.  we get good fireworks 2x a week here that i can view from my couch, but very few cities have what StL has, in terms of boom.  (nothing to do with Nelly!)    it'd be trick if the GAS'ers loaded up a truck bed with speakers, an amp & a tuner to blast the Superman theme on the bridge during the shows.   i guarantee one of ya'll have a truck...

[Scott F.]

i guarantee one of ya'll have a truck...

...yep, complete with a gun rack and an 'ole one eyed, Blue Tick hound thats been in one too many fights with a raccoon.



 

I hope everyone enjoys their surface noise on the day off tomorrow!    our forefathers would want it that way.

Absolutely. No stereo system is complete without it