[TheChairGuy]

Prompted by a suggestion by member 'JLM' in an Audio Central topic recently...he and I would like to know 'how do you cope with it' and still wanna' listen to music on vinyl?

[djbnh]

Prompted by a suggestion by member 'JLM' in an Audio Central topic recently...he and I would like to know 'how do you cope with it' and still wanna' listen to music on vinyl?

I can understand the above point of view. It reminds me of when certain city friends come up to visit me here in the NH countryside during the summer, and get pestered once in a while by a deer fly or two while taking a walk down my country lane - "How can you live up here with the bugs?", they've asked, while the pastoral beauty of the scenery, the bird and frog calls, the clear air and sharp-edged sky, the perfect comfortable nights with a star canopy that goes on forever and forever go seemingly unnoticed.

To take the analogy further, fall in NH is idyllic with the colorful pallet of leaves and no bugs, winter is great with the fireplace roaring and snow for skiing and snowmobiling (and no bugs), and spring is brief with an outpouring of black flies for two weeks. So most of the year there's no minor flying insect annoyances and there's peace, quiet, and overabundant natural grandeur to enjoy.

I guess some persons are wired to focus on bugs and let it spoil their enjoyment, while others enjoy the big picture and aren't bothered.  I don't mind a bug now and then in my record collection.

[eric the red]

Just start losing your hearing like I am and Voila! surface noise diminished-no purchase required.

[Scott F.]

djbnh,

That is the perfect analogy.

That said, there are two factors that come into play. First is a good cleaning using proper fluids and brushes. The second is the stylus. Some carts and stylus profiles are just plain noisy. One of the quietest (for my money) is the Dynavector. It may not grab that last milligram of detail but it sure is quiet. If your vinyl is still noisy after those two, chances are that its time to buy a new copy of that album (discounting the reground vinyl formulas that some labels used, of course).

[JLM]

Please note that John is putting a few words in my mouth. 

As I've stated elsewhere, I just can't tolerate the surface noise, but had no intention on starting any heated debates by starting a thread.  I simply suggested that this could be a topic for discussion.  In fact I told him that I thought the CD versus LP issue had been done plenty already.

[Wayner]

To be honest, I have very little surface noise in 99% of my collection. Most of us old vinyl guys know how to cure that problem by cleaning, static removal and careful handling. I have recorded some albums from vinyl to CD that you would wonder who made this wonderful sounding digital "remaster".

Your absolutely right, I can't stand pops and noise either.....so I fix it.

How is this accomplished?

Wash records, get a Milty Zerostat gun, damp brush your vinyl before playing (with H2O/Alcohol mix) and clean your stylus every time you play.

W

[WEEZ]

djbnh, Scott F, and Wayner covered it pretty well..

All I would add, is that any surface noise that exists.....is 'outside of the music'.

WEEZ

[Psychicanimal]

I am in the process of setting up my system in a farmaceutical/electronics industry clean room environment.

[opnly bafld]

djbnh,

That is the perfect analogy.

You are right it is.

I would have to quit my job and sell my house, find another job and house in NH, for ME to be able to enjoy the pluses and learn how to ignore the negatives. 

Lin

[opnly bafld]

How many of you that "enjoy" vinyl already had a collection of LPs before and during the early years of CD?
(if you are around or under 25 do not answer this question because too many of your peers follow something because it is  or the "in" thing to do )

Lin

[Scott F.]

Well, I bought (or should I say my Mom bought) my first album and record player for me somewhere around 1965 or so. Prior to that listened to albums on my parents Magnavox console. Back then we had a TV but we listened to music or the radio more often than not.

Keep in mind, at the time St Louis had three (maybe four) TV stations. They didn't come on the air until about 6am and went off the air at around 11pm. No Nintendo, no Playstation, no internet, no computers, no VCR's, no Pong, no air conditioning (fans only), party line phone service, pen pals, lots of Koolaid, lots of library time, hobby shops, forts (the cool ones you built in the woods), treehouses (before people sued you because it was an eyesore), BB guns (before people shot their eyes out), the Milkman still delivered fresh milk in glass jugs and eggs (and gave us kids big blocks of ice to crunch on), Leave it to Beaver just finished its first run on TV, The Andy Griffith Show was mid-run, ....... hell, I still remember using an outhouse at our family farm.

Life really was much simpler back then. We had far fewer distractions and much less to want.

Surface noise?....what surface noise? 

[TONEPUB]

Im with the "not much noise" crowd.  Took good care of my records
from day one and use a fairly good cleaning regimen that works well.

Other than the occasional pop now and then, its not a bother.

Having an exellent front end helps too!

[Toka]

A good stylus (and un-abused records) are the key...some carts, no matter how much you pay for them, simply cannot track that well or track areas of the groove that would have been worn down in the past. Dynavector, as mentioned, and Audio-Technica use the best styli on the market today, for my ears...fitting, as I believe they source them from the same company.

[WGH]

How many of you that "enjoy" vinyl already had a collection of LPs before and during the early years of CD

Lin

Actually I enjoy the music that is on the vinyl, much of it will never be on CD, that it (still) sounds better than a CD is the frosting on the cake. I used to go into record stores once a month (for you young'uns - that is a store that only sells records, unbelievable as it sounds) and buy 10 records at a time. By the time CD's arrived I already had quite a big vinyl library.

I agree the cartridge choice makes a big difference in surface noise. A properly set up Goldring is completely quiet.

[WEEZ]

I am reading Lin's question as saying, "If you didn't already own vinyl records, why in the world would you get involved with vinyl now?"

The answer is, most people don't (or won't).

...back to clicks and pops, fellas..

WEEZ

[nathanm]

Noise?  First buy a brand new album, don't buy a used one unless it's from an equally fastidious friend.  Take it out of the sleeve and wash it.  Recite the scary words "Mold release compound" which you read somewheres and got paranoid about.  Get one of those wet vac contraptions that attaches to a vacuum cleaner.  Wet down a brush, rub it across the surface, vacuum off the moisture.  Then dab the stylus in a bit of soft rubber to clean off any lint and play the thing.   Here's where the super neurotic internal brain struggle begins because you want to believe so badly that your nerdy audiophile rituals have done the trick but you are secretly dreading actually hearing clicks and pops.  With any luck you won't, or they will be few and far between and your brain can shut off and listen to music.  Return it to a plastic-lined sleeve after you're done and repeat the process next time.  Well, maybe. Maybe just use the carbon brush doodad next time.

Brand new records are very quiet I've found.  Used ones not so much.  I assume this is because the previous owners did not do any cleaning.  This is the part I am unsure of; does the vinyl get permanently scratched up as it passes through all the microscopic dust so that after the damage is done you can't go back? 

Then there's the whole business of turntable and cartridge adjustments which will drive you batshit.  You will not know whether the noise is the inherent failing of the medium or whether you need to get a more\better\different cartridge or what because you read all the gushing praise from vinylphiles who seemingly cannot hear all this grunge and you don't know whether they are blocking it out in their minds, they like the noise on a nostalgic level, it IS actually as quiet as they claim on their system, or they are just lying.  You won't know.  Then you will begrudgingly realize that digital has every reason to be superior, (pushing aside the big issue musical taste and availability\format of the albums you like for the moment) and that you are mainly pining for 12" artwork and 12pt lyrics.  And maybe smell.

[TheChairGuy]

Nathan brings up great points - as only Nathan can 

Are the clicks and pops mostly albums that have been treated poorly by previous owners...or is it a good bit of the static properties that records can attract causing it?

A good wet cleaning with a vacuum seems to rid most of the annoying clicks and pops clear out of the used records...to the point where they are almost not even noticeable anymore. Not always, but most times.

[JoshK]

How many of you that "enjoy" vinyl already had a collection of LPs before and during the early years of CD?
(if you are around or under 25 do not answer this question because too many of your peers follow something because it is  or the "in" thing to do )

Lin

I am 31.  I had CD's before I owned LPs, but I grew up playing my father's LPs on his stereo.  Then he gave me his collection.  That is when I bought a TT.

The country analogy is perfect!  I too also think the surface noise is uncorrelated with the music and if you have cleaned your LPs well it will be infrequent.

[TheChairGuy]

Josh,

It's younger guys who are into vinyl, like you and GooberMatt (and others I'm sure I can't think of right now), that often remind me it's not purely nostalgia that makes my love my music on vinyl. 

You coulda' let your Dad's collection rot away from neglect - vinyl is just such a commitment; maybe you shoulda'? 

WEEZ (author of profound WEEZlings daily around here) said it recently in an another post...vinyl forces you to pay attention to it. He meant when listening to it, of course...but it also forces your attention as it needs so much upkeep to make it that much more enjoyable.   

[DARTH AUDIO]

No clicks and pops here.. IMO it's not record wear but dirty records. I've been buying vinyl for 34 years and most of my collection is used records (3000 records). You can't be cheap and expect good sound from vinyl. You have to invest in a very good TT and Cart. But most of all you have to buy the best record cleaner you can get your hands on. I have a lot of people who have listened to my vinyl rig and can't believe how quiet it is. But this has taken time and money. I have always had some record cleaning system. For years I owned the VPI 16.5 and I thought that help out a lot. But, about a year ago I purchased the Loricraft Record Cleaner ($2K) and I use the L'Art du Son record cleaning liquid. This made a HUGE improvement on records I thought were already cleaned. Nope!! The loricraft machine is simply AMAZING in how well it cleans records. Even new records are dirty. The detail is in the grooves , the problem is so is the dirt!!. If you really enjoy vinyl and have a large collection run don't walk and buy the loricraft record. You won't believe what you've been missing. Next up is Walker Audio's new record cleaning solution. BTW, Walker Audio's precision TT motor is a major upgrade to you TT's sound.

Enjoy your vinyl,

Gary