Sealed HT2 or HT1's?? What sounds better?

obiwan11 · « **on:** 29 Jun 2007, 02:28 pm »

What would sound better out of these 2, if I were to make them active via my own DEQX and blend them with my Velodyne DD15 sub? Would there be significant lobing issues with the MTM HT2, or would the steep crossovers of the DEQX virtually eliminate this?

Just thinking out loud here. Of course the other option is to forget bookshelves and my DD15 and just get the HT3's, but I suspect shipping to Australia would make them cost prohibative.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 02:34 pm »

But you'd only ship them once! And you wouldn't spend any more on shipping in speakers again. HT3 baby!!

obiwan11 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 29 Jun 2007, 02:34 pm

But you'd only ship them once! And you wouldn't spend any more on shipping in speakers again. HT3 baby!!

They're famous last words. Like I've never said that (or similar) to myself before in this world of hifi!!!! If I just change that amp, or CD player, or cables or speakers then it will all be alright this time. Well it is for about 2 weeks, then back to the drawing board. But still, I live in hope.

jsalk · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 02:46 pm »

obiwan11 -

Quote from: obiwan11 on 29 Jun 2007, 02:28 pm

but I suspect shipping to Australia would make them cost prohibative.

Just a note on shipping. Shipping any speakers by air freight is expensive. The larger the speaker, the greater the expense.

But if you can wait a little longer for sea freight, the cost is quite reasonable. And the nice thing is that sea freight is charged by volume, not weight. The minimum volume is usually 1 cu. meter. So there is no difference in the cost of shipping HT3's vs. HT1's.

We will be shipping a pair of HT3's to Australia soon. In addition, we have an HT3-based home theater system (HT3's, HTC and HT1's) shipping soon to Australia as well. The shipping costs in both cases will be about the same.

Just thought you'd like to know...

- Jim

DMurphy · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 03:58 pm »

I don't know from shipping. But as for sound, I don't think there's any way to predict how a fully active HT2 with a sub would compare with a purely passive HT3. That obviously depends on how well you implement the DEQX and how good the sub is. In any event, vertical lobing with the MTM will not be a serious problem. It really isn't that much of an issue with the shallower passive slopes. it's not like the highs will go away when you stand up. The real difference in performance between this combo will be sensitivity. The MTM's will be 4 or 5 dB more sensitive than the HT3, if that's important to you. As for the HT1 vs HT2, there's maybe a 3 dB sensitivity difference, and an MTM never quite sounds like an MT, due to different radiation patterns. I've never A-B's the two. My best guess is that the HT1 is a bit smoother in the crossover area because the tweeter is not mid-way between the two woofer cavities, which causes some diffraction ripples. But the HT2 may image a little better, and will play louder. I hope all this clouds the decision sufficiently.

ctviggen · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 04:05 pm »

It has for me!

Still, if the shipping isn't that bad, the HT3s would be what I would choose. Then, if you want to go Deqx, you buy the HT3s that are made for that application.

randybessinger · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jun 2007, 04:09 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 29 Jun 2007, 03:58 pm

I I hope all this clouds the decision sufficiently.

Dennis, you do have a way with words

obiwan11 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 12:34 am »

Jim,

Can you tell me just roughly what the sea freight costs to Australia would be?

Also it would be nice to know what the dimensions of the sealed HT2 are. Would like to know if the custom Skylan stands I had made up for my Dynaudio Special 25's would be the right size for them. But then again, I could probably sell the Special 25's with those custom stands as they look pretty good together, definitely better than Dynaudio's own stands.

And then you get me thinking, do I go the whole hog and get a complete home theatre set to help save on eventual multiple shipping costs if I do it in dribs and drabs.

Much thinking to do. I do know that I've virtually given up now on the Special 25's despite disconnecting their crossover and biamping them with DEQX. They still have no where near the magic of the Dyn C1's no matter what I do to them. Mind you I have just ordered a dense wool pad to put around the tweeter from diffractionbegone.com to see that does to the S25's, but they'd have to do a lot for me to keep those speakers.

DMurphy · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 02:03 am »

Hi You're confusing me a little. Dynaudio certainly makes high quality drivers, although some can't be implemented successfully with the 1st order acoustic slopes that Dyn often prefers. But the S25 with a DQEX should sound pretty darn good. What exactly is it about this combo of drivers that bothers you? Maybe that would help us make some recommendations.

obiwan11 · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 03:47 am »

Hi Dennis,

I started my Dynaudio journey with the Special 25's. Only problem was I always found them too forward in the midrange in my home. I tried various speaker cables, amps, different stands etc. I also then bought the little Contour SR's (which are meant to be surrounds) and found they had a much warmer balance, made vocals very pleasant, but nonetheless, I delegated them to surround duties (plus one as a centre, for how little I do home theatre stuff anyway). Then I ordered a pair of the large Contour S5.4's which have the 2 of the bass drivers in the S25 plus a midrange and the same Esotar tweeter as the S25. They sounded so much warmer in the mods as well, and the treble seemed to be a lot more refined as well. But they're bass is a bit much in my room, though I could use DEQX even in single amp mode to correct that. With both the S25 and the S5.4's I think the cabinets are also not quite solid enough and are contributing to the sound.

I think the main problem with the S25 is that perhaps an 8 inch driver shouldn't be made to do midrange duties. I was hoping that biamping them with DEQX (and having the DD15 sub) might bring them to the same vocal quality I get with the large S5'4s or even the small SR's, but I just can't get it to do that. I have thought of even making the 5.4's active (triamped), but the S25's were hard enough to get inside, having to take the tweeer out backwards, and the solder was so hard to melt to disconnect the drivers from the speaker wire. And that was with a metallurgist friend trying to do it for me.

THat's why I thought I should maybe just sell all I have and start afresh before butchering more speakers.

ANyway , off to tennis now.

Thanks for all the replies guys, its all very helpfull.

obiwan11 · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 07:09 am »

Back from tennis,

I've just popped the S25's onto lower metal stands, the tweeter is now pretty much at ear level as opposed to being above and it is giving a more detailed sound, need to do some more experimenting. I've also managed to get a very flat response on the Velodyne DD15 software for the first time. Its a bit hard to go by the DEQX software for flat bass response as you can't see what's happening live as you move speakers around the room, plus with the DEQX you're just not quite sure where to adjust the bass response as the sub and main speakers are plotted separately, you're not quite sure how it will all sum together. With the Velodyne your measuring the combined response and have a better idea of we're you're at.

Anyway, that was totally off topic for a Salk Sound post, apologies for that.

jsalk · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 06:48 pm »

obiwan11

Quote from: obiwan11 on 30 Jun 2007, 12:34 am

Jim,

Can you tell me just roughly what the sea freight costs to Australia would be?

Well, as I recall, the minimum is about $310 for 1 cu. ft. (which is room for quite a few speakers). Pick-up from our shop and delivery to the freight forwarder is about $70. And, of course, there is insurance to consider, but that depends on the value being insured. This is not a whole lot more than it costs to ship from here (near Detroit) to California via UPS, FedEx or DHL.

Quote

Also it would be nice to know what the dimensions of the sealed HT2 are. Would like to know if the custom Skylan stands I had made up for my Dynaudio Special 25's would be the right size for them. But then again, I could probably sell the Special 25's with those custom stands as they look pretty good together, definitely better than Dynaudio's own stands.

Sealed HT2's are 9" wide, 14" deep and 22" tall.

Quote

And then you get me thinking, do I go the whole hog and get a complete home theatre set to help save on eventual multiple shipping costs if I do it in dribs and drabs.

No argument here. You would certainly be very happy if you did.

Here's another thing to consider. Rather than sealed HT2's, you might consider floor-standing HT2's. No stands are required and they wouldn't take up any more floor space. The benefit is additional bass extension so you can cross lower to your subwoofer. Just a thought.

- Jim

obiwan11 · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 12:12 am »

Thanks Jim. More thinking to do!

By the way, would either of the 2 shipments coming to Australia happen to be going to Brisbane? Would be nice to try and get an audition of the Salk Sound sound (if I was able to successfully wrangle myself an invitation!!)

jsalk · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 12:37 am »

obiwan11 -

Quote from: obiwan11 on 3 Jul 2007, 12:12 am

Thanks Jim. More thinking to do!

By the way, would either of the 2 shipments coming to Australia happen to be going to Brisbane? Would be nice to try and get an audition of the Salk Sound sound (if I was able to successfully wrangle myself an invitation!!)

I am not that familiar with locations in Australia, but I understand that Logan City is not too far from Brisbane. You can PM an audiocircle member who goes by the name "VW" and inquire.

- Jim

DMurphy · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 02:36 am »

Just curious--economists like to understand shipping rates. Did you really mean 1 cu ft? 1 cu yard? 10 cu ft?

jsalk · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 02:50 am »

Dennis -

Quote from: DMurphy on 3 Jul 2007, 02:36 am

Just curious--economists like to understand shipping rates. Did you really mean 1 cu ft? 1 cu yard? 10 cu ft?

Sorry about that - 1 cu. meter

- Jim

VW · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 12:51 pm »

Hi Obiwan11, you're welcome to come and have a listen to the HT3's when they finally arrive. I'm about 25 minutes from Brisbane City in Logan Central. Though the HT3's are nearly ready ( waiting for Jim to contact me to finalise the baffle finish ) I'm not aware yet of shipping time. Plus they'll get hung up at Customs for 1-2 weeks. Then of course run-in time.

To begin with I'll be driving them with Nu Force Ref 9 V2 SE monoblocs on the mids/tweeter and 9.02 V1 monoblocs on the woofers. The SE's have just arrived and are currently running in. Current pre-amp is Modwright 9.0 SE Signature ( cap upgrade just run in ) and front end Meridian 508/24. I had shortlisted Hyperion 938's before I decided on the HT3's, even heard a pair in Sydney, which sounded mediocre probably due to poor associated componentry, but it was enough to turn me off them . I think with the HT3's you'll get a fair hearing. You can get in touch with me through Audio Circle if you like.

obiwan11 · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 01:44 pm »

Thanks VW, I sent you a private message this afternoon from work. You're probably like me, in most of these forums it takes me weeks to stumble on the fact that someone has sent me a message. I never think to look.

I look forward to hearing them.

Do you go to the Brisbane, or rather now the new name, the Queensland AUdio Club meetings? I've been to maybe 6 or 8 over the past year or 2. Just wondering if I might have met you at one of them.

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 01:52 pm »

You can set your profile so that the system will email you when you receive a personal message. That's the only way I can keep track of the personal messages.

VW · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Jul 2007, 12:36 pm »

Obiwan11, I haven't as yet attended any audio club meets but plan to do so. I'm sure Brisbane enthusiasts would be interested in having a listen to Jim's HT3's when they are up and running. I would also be interested in feedback as I know many members are widely experienced - Keith Eichmann ( Eichmann bullet plug inventor etc. )for one I heard attends these meets. Of course you can come along any time you like once the HT3's are run in. I'll post you my details in reply to your mail in Personal Messages.