Difference between Mono Extremes and Mono Extreme SE's??

Lkdog · « **on:** 11 Jun 2007, 09:20 pm »

Have had my Mono Extremes for a few months and am quite pleased with the sound in my setup listed in my signature.

With all the recent posts about the SE's- I was wondering what those that have had both would say the improvement is by going to the SE's from the Mono Extremes.

I realize that there is not actually a standard SE model out there as these are sort of custom upgrades so maybe this is a bit of a mystery as to typical estimated cost and what specifically the upgrade consists of.

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks.

Lkdog · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 02:35 am »

Alright you guys....I have heard there are like 10-20 pairs of these out there.

When you get them are you sworn to secrecy???

Bigfish · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 03:08 am »

Hi:

I have a new pair of the Mono SEs and I am confident in writing that probably no two pairs of SEs are identical. You would need to call Klaus, give him your serial numbers, and ask him what changes/tweeks he would suggest for your Mono Extremes? I am certain he would advise you of the expect benefits versus the pair you currently have.

If you do searches on this Circle I believe most people have upgraded to the Mono Extreme SEs from smaller Odyssey AMPS, not from a pair of Mono Extremes. Like me they may have started with the SEs. When I ordered my amps Klaus quoted me a price and told me he would make me a special pair of Mono SEs and do X, Y and Z to them. Do they sound different than a standard pair of monos? I trust Klaus and believe the tweeks he made to my pair would be different than a standard pair but how would I know if my amps sound better than a standard pair of monos? I know for certain I like the performance of my amps and Candela and the bottom-line is that is all that really matters!

Good Luck,

Ken

Lkdog · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 05:38 am »

Thanks for the response.

MaxCast · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 11:12 am »

Awh, just go for it. Then you will know how they sound and you can tell us

Aren't you close to The Man? If so, you'd save half the cost of the upgrade just by not shipping those bad boys.

Lkdog · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 02:04 pm »

I live about 5 hours from Indy.
I have buddies that go through there a lot, though.
Shipping was cheap via Fedex, only took a couple days and the
Mono Extremes arrived in one piece.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard both the Mono Extremes and a pair of SE's and could comment.

Maybe Alex G. could comment in general??

TomS · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 02:19 pm »

Quote from: Lkdog on 15 Jun 2007, 02:04 pm

I live about 5 hours from Indy.
I have buddies that go through there a lot, though.
Shipping was cheap via Fedex, only took a couple days and the
Mono Extremes arrived in one piece.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard both the Mono Extremes and a pair of SE's and could comment.

Maybe Alex G. could comment in general??

I only had my "regular" Extremes for a couple of weeks before they went back for the full SE treatment so certainly take this with a grain of salt. The main differences I can discern now that I have a few hundred hours is a bit less edge through the upper mids and what seems like greater transparency than I've heard from the Odyssey amps before. They were always very smooth, but I sensed something might be missing as a tradeoff. Not so with the SE's. I get it all and they remain very smooth.

Klaus rattled off the changes to SE, but as many have said, each situation is unique. Something like ~50 parts, mostly resistors and the smaller bypassing caps, internal wiring upgrades, slightly higher bias setting, etc. The more "custom" part comes in when you start using some of the higher value boutique caps (Sonicaps, Mundorf...) that get expensive real fast.

Tom

...oh, I'm fortunately only about 1 1/2 hrs. from Klausland so mine even get personal delivery

Wizard454 · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 04:08 pm »

I have had my SE's for about a year now, I went right to the top end of the Odyssey product line from an old NAD so can't comment on Std~SE difference. Klaus took into account what source, preamp, speakers and powerline voltage variations along with what I was looking to get out of the system as a whole and built the amps to best suit my needs. In fact I was sworn to secrecy as he told me the "SE" had not been released yet and parts were in short supply.
So far I've been very, very pleased with both the transaction & performance of this product, I don't see these amps going up for sale ever.

Fred

Lkdog · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 12:52 am »

Thanks guys.

Just as I thought.......it is like the Templar Order of Knights.

Will have to give Klaus a call when I get the upgrade itch again.

bunky · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 01:03 am »

Quote from: Lkdog on 15 Jun 2007, 02:35 am

Alright you guys....I have heard there are like 10-20 pairs of these out there.

When you get them are you sworn to secrecy???

YES!

bunky · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 01:15 am »

Quote from: Lkdog on 15 Jun 2007, 02:04 pm

I live about 5 hours from Indy.
I have buddies that go through there a lot, though.
Shipping was cheap via Fedex, only took a couple days and the
Mono Extremes arrived in one piece.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard both the Mono Extremes and a pair of SE's and could comment.

Maybe Alex G. could comment in general??

I had the mono extremes first and then i bugged Klaus for six months straight until he told me to send him the mono extremes for the SE modification process

The SE's are faster and smoother with a more Liquid sound

lazydays · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 02:50 am »

Quote from: Lkdog on 15 Jun 2007, 02:35 am

Alright you guys....I have heard there are like 10-20 pairs of these out there.

When you get them are you sworn to secrecy???

No I don't think so, but I often have felt like I was bragging about those two arc welders residing in my living room. So the only thing I'm going to tell you is that they are without a doubt "Krell killers!" I've never been able to over drive them. The sound is somewhat Accuphase like, but much faster.
Now I've written my somewhat detailed feelings about these amps in the past, and suggest you do a search. Also make sure you have good heavyduty amp stands. There's a lot of metal in them, and the first set I had just wouldn't get the job done. Later I picked op a pair of used black Zeothecus stands with the isolator pads. Lastly, when they are boxed up, they are a real handfull!
gary

Lkdog · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 04:49 am »

Gary-

Have done some searches here and gotten some very limited info and actually did a ton of research on the standard Monoblocks and Mono Extremes on the old Harmonic Discord forums and this forum before I bought the Mono Extremes.

Found one recent quote from Klaus about 4 pairs of full Garys, and an earlier quote that he made about 8 pairs of the full Garys. I am guessing there is a continuum of upgraded units out there depending upon what people chose to have done-"Garys" and otherwise.

In any event, it is interesting to know that there is a possible upgrade path that can be negotiated with Klaus if one chooses.
Thanks for the info.

lazydays · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2007, 12:04 am »

Quote from: Lkdog on 16 Jun 2007, 04:49 am

Gary-

Have done some searches here and gotten some very limited info and actually did a ton of research on the standard Monoblocks and Mono Extremes on the old Harmonic Discord forums and this forum before I bought the Mono Extremes.

Found one recent quote from Klaus about 4 pairs of full Garys, and an earlier quote that he made about 8 pairs of the full Garys. I am guessing there is a continuum of upgraded units out there depending upon what people chose to have done-"Garys" and otherwise.

In any event, it is interesting to know that there is a possible upgrade path that can be negotiated with Klaus if one chooses.
Thanks for the info.

when I spoke with Klaus about the upgrade path, he laid out what seems to me as three levels. Told him to give the the full tilt boogie, and he said that he didn't do the "Gary" upgrade anymore. Told him I had no idea what he was talking about. He picked them up at work, and delivered them about a week later at the same spot.
gary

Lkdog · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Jun 2007, 01:10 am »

You are lucky you live so close to Indy!

topround · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Jun 2007, 01:35 am »

Hey,
My friend Gary has the full Gary on his extremes!

Too funny

mclsound · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Jun 2007, 11:09 am »

hi guys,first of all "KRELL KILLERS" is one way to put it,when i started out i bought a used pair of SE's,had them sent back to Klaus,and said i want these to go head to head with my cousins Bryston 14BST.....a challange?????? NO! i was assured that it can be done(for a small fee $$$$$)...Klaus realized that my journey was not over, since i was on the hunt for a used pair of MONO's to upgrade to EXTREMES,hence through the magic of the tele gave me an "offer i couldn't refuse"(for a small fee $$$)....since i am Canadian my term is "BRYSTON BUSTERS",but have been assured the new SE's are "BRYSTON BLASTERS".....THEY ARE NOW ON THEIR long journey to their new home in Ontario,where they will be (in time)side by side against a pair of ASHLEY FET 2000(425wX2),a pair of AUDIOPRO AP3000(425WX2/8ohm,750w/4ohm,1200w/2ohm),and of course a BRYSTON 14BSST(600w/ch),not my cousins 14bst, also a ODYSSEY HT-3(120,000 cap)........later i will ,with all honesty,describe what i hear,so that a question simular to LKdog may be answered. thanks John

lazydays · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Jun 2007, 06:37 pm »

Quote from: Lkdog on 17 Jun 2007, 01:10 am

You are lucky you live so close to Indy!

funny thing is the look on people's faces when I tell them where they are made. I had that stunned look last night from a well respected bassist. Yep made right in my backyard!
gary

jgr757 · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jun 2007, 08:09 pm »

The Mono Extreme SEs are capable of re-creating the sonic signatures of a manufacturer of most any instrument. The sound stage is broader and deeper and sonically more accurate than anything else I've owned or listened to. Steinways are different between each other (Hamburg vs. New York), as well as other piano makes and accurately reproduce the harmonic structure (overtones) from bottom to top. The same goes for other instruments and their manufacturers. Massed voices in full symphony such as "Beethoven's 9th" on vinyl from Herbert von Karajan is performed without smear. Keith Jarrett's "Koln Concert" on ECM pulls out the nuances of this emotional performance unlike any other. Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" reproduces the 6' bass drum like I was back at band with absolutely no slop, but reproduces the harmonics from subsonic to retrieving the sound of the skin vibrating through the upper middle frequencies, and it does it without stepping on all of the other instruments such as the horns cymbals. It sounds majestic as the real performance. For the first time, snare drums sound accurate compared to anything else I've listened to and the tuning of them is evident. When I inserted these amps into my system, it is only the second time I have heard any system where the speakers disappear. The amps have complete control of the speakers.

Turntable/Arm - heavily modified Rega 25 with upgraded platter, sub-platter, re-wired w. Cardas, Canada Music Mat, Shure V15 type V, Grado Signature cartridges
SACD - Shanling SCD-T200C (no gold accents)
Phono pre-amp - PS Audio & Bryston
Speakers - ProAc SC1s and Rel Stadium III subwoofer

When I play CDs the SCD-T200C Shanling is plugged directly into amps. I do the same with the PS Audio phono amp. Both have more than enough output to drive the Mono Extreme SEs to maximum output without strain.

Lkdog · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 12:42 am »

Interesting.
I am listening to Stefano Bollani (Piano Solo) right now.
Piano is hard to sound convincing when reproduced.
I was just thinking how well these Mono Extremes communicate the piano.

Your description of the SE's is a very strong endorsement of their abilities.
Thanks for the input.

I am guessing it is a matter of time for me before I talk with Klaus and Alex about what my options might be.