isolating transformers

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fajimr

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isolating transformers
« on: 28 May 2007, 07:53 pm »
hello

another basic question:  I am building my GK-1 preamp and want to cover the transformers in order to isolate them from the PCB and prevent  intrusion of unwanted hum.  Is there a preferred material for building a small box to cover the trannies?  aluminum?  tin?  stainless steel? other?

are there sources for such covers?  I've found a few hammond boxes that might work?  any other solutions out there?

thanks in advance
jim

Dougl

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Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #1 on: 28 May 2007, 08:12 pm »
mu-metal is the best shield material, because it blocks both electric and magnetic fields.
However, it is most effective if its not work hardened.

My impression is that available covers are usually cosmetic.  In the case of low level microphone or MCC applications, the Mu-metal is usually a part of the transformer design.

HTH

Doug

andyr

Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #2 on: 28 May 2007, 09:45 pm »
hello

another basic question:  I am building my GK-1 preamp and want to cover the transformers in order to isolate them from the PCB and prevent  intrusion of unwanted hum.  Is there a preferred material for building a small box to cover the trannies?  aluminum?  tin?  stainless steel? other?

are there sources for such covers?  I've found a few hammond boxes that might work?  any other solutions out there?

thanks in advance
jim
Hi jim,

I used a steel divider in my GK-1 case to separate the trannies from the PCB.

AIUI, mild steel (not stainless) is the second-best material to shield from magnetic fields (as Doug said, mu-metal is the best).  Al doesn't shield magnetics, nor copper.

If the layout of your case precludes an internal divider, you might care to use some tinned-steel cans which food like baked beans is packed in!   :o  You can get them in various diameters and can cut their height down to size with tin snips.

Regards,

Andy

fajimr

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Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #3 on: 29 May 2007, 06:15 pm »
thanks guys... mu-metal boxes were a bit difficult to locate.  I might try some mild steel.. if not then open a can of beans  :lol:

The other question is:  do the transformers need to be completely covered or just shielded from the PCB?

jim

gooberdude

Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #4 on: 29 May 2007, 07:09 pm »
This might be a bit OT, but adding a layer of Black Hole Pad or similar under trannies will help reduce vibration transmission...don't want those vibes attacking a PCB for sure.



Monolith

Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #5 on: 29 May 2007, 07:26 pm »
McMaster Carr carries MU metal foil

www.mcmastercarr.com

fajimr

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Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #6 on: 30 May 2007, 01:40 am »
McMaster Carr carries MU metal foil

www.mcmastercarr.com

good find monolith- thanks.  I'll build the box and then see if I need a better lining

thanks gooberdude... it does let the "good vibrations" through though, right?  :lol:
jim

jules

Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #7 on: 30 May 2007, 03:04 am »
After various discussions on this topic I'm still not entirely convinced that Mu metal, which is very expensive, is the answer to AC induced magnetic fields but I'm open to a good answer.

Mu metal is great for strong magnetic fields particularly if the direction and strength of the field is fixed. Ferrous materials might or might not do the trick depending on their analysis [after all, the core of a transformer is ferrous] but if a ferrous material is good for a permanent magnet, then it's also good as a shield because it can't "switch" [sorry, don't know the term] fast enough. I suppose this might apply to fruit cans  :)

Aluminium and most types of stainless steel are not useful barriers to magnetic fields [though they're ok for RFI].

Copper allows an unchanging magnetic field though but when subjected to an AC generated magnetic field, the changes in magnetic flux induce a current in the copper with the result that the field does not penetrate the copper.

Dunno if this helps or muddies the water. What's a Hammond box made of, Aluminium?

And another edit  :). The other thing that EIs do is to emit a certain amount of RFI, in which case your shield has to protect against that too, meaning it probably should be more enclosing than if you were just dealing with a magnetic field.

jules
« Last Edit: 30 May 2007, 03:56 am by jules »

Audiovista

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Re: isolating transformers
« Reply #8 on: 30 May 2007, 11:24 am »
Mu metal should work fine for magnetic fields (and any other materials with high permeability, such as ferrites, iron powder, etc.), but you may need several layers to achieve adequate attenuation. Mild steel should work too, not as good - you'll need more layers. For electric fields you would need a good conductor such as copper, aluminum....silver..... :D

For electromagnetic fields you need both - there are some expensive composite materials with high permeability and conductivity, but I'm not aware of any being sold retail.

Going back to Mu metal, just to repeat - several layers are the key words. I have found that some offending transfomers need 0.25" of shielding to quiet down.

Boris