[gitarretyp]

Recently, i compared a few dacs to my RWA SB3's analog output. I've been running the analog out direct to my amp/subs for a year or so but recently decided to try out some dacs due to some annoyances with the SB. All dacs were auditioned run direct to amp/subs using the SB digital volume to control levels. My musical tastes are varied, so i used a variety of music from jazz, rock/metal, blues, country, electronica, and classical.

I picked up the Citypulse DA7.2x with TCXO installed from the head-fi forums recently and FredT300B graciously let me borrow a Lite DAC60 with upgraded power supply and output coupling caps for a week. Comparisons were done with everything level matched within a couple of dBs.

Lite DAC60 - This dac has midrange magic unlike any i've heard. Vocals and certain instruments have a palpability to them that i've not experienced in my system. The dac has excellent sense of air and a wide and deep soundstage. The treble is smooth and detailed with no untoward sibilance, leaning somewhat to the sweet side. The dac60 does an excellent job of detail retrieval with a complete lack of harshness. Bass is well extended and powerful; however the bass and lower midrange is somewhat overripe. The lower midrange, upper bass emphasis lends nicely to filling out vocals and giving distorted guitars the growl that is often missing from recorded guitar; however, the emphasis on the bottom end causes real problems on music with a lot of density in that area. Complex rock music and large symphonies become a glob of sound rather than distinct instruments. For instance, Enter Sandman by Metallica has guitars to the inside of both the left and right channel. The dac makes each guitar sound more real than any i've heard, but once the song gets going, there's just a wall of guitar rather than two distinct instruments. Similarly, on Muse's new album, some songs sound muddled and confused, causing them to sound very boring rather than the fun rock songs they are. Dynamics on this dac are very good, but are a little rounded over i believe due to the treble sweetness. This leads to piano sounding overly sweet and drums lacking a little snap.

Overall, i could happily live with this dac. The dac does best with smaller ensembles and less complex music. Perhaps a few more mods and/or different tubes would bring it up a notch.

Citypulse - This dac has better dynamics and bass control than the dac60. Tonally, it's somewhat more forward in the midrange than the dac60 with less body in the lower mids/upper bass. The slight forwardness has the effect of putting vocalists a little more forward than normal, which isn't entirely bad. The treble is this dac's biggest weakness. It's rather tizzy and indistinct. The soundstage has far less air between instruments and somewhat less width than the dac60, but is more precise. Depth is not as good overall compared to the dac60. Detail/resolution is also poorer than the dac60, likely due to the poorer treble.

One interesting feature of the citypulse is defeatable upsampling. To me, it sounds best at 24/44.1k compared to 24/196k. With the upsampling, the sound is warmer with slightly better treble; however, dynamics are poorer and the soundstage becomes muddled. Instruments and vocalists become bloated and indistinct --similar to what the dac60 does to some complex music. This mode may sound better in a more forward system and does nice things to some recordings.

Overall, i could probably live happily with the citypulse if i hadn't auditioned (or read about) any other dacs in its price range.

Between the dac60 and the citypulse, i would almost certainly take the dac60.

I also took both the citypulse and dac60 to the Lonestar Bottlehead meeting this afternoon where we performed a brief comparison. The source was a samsung dvd player, the amp was an integrated SET model whose brand/model name escapes me. Speakers were budget line arrays FredT300B built. The opinion of those that took part essentially mirrored my own, with the citypulse being more forward and dynamic and the dac60 warmer and more spacious.

SB3 analog out - Tonally, the SB falls between the two dacs. It's less warm and full bodied than the dac60 and less forward than the citypulse. The treble is laid back and smooth, but less detailed than the dac60. It lacks the palpability and air of the dac60, and the liveliness of the citypulse. The dynamics and bass weight are considerably weaker than either dac. The soundstage is comparable to the citypulse. Detail/resolution is behind both dacs.

I've lived happily with the SB for a year; however, having heard these two dacs, i can't go back to it happily.

My dac search continues this week with a Channel Islands VDA-2 en route. I'll update this thread once i get a chance to listen to it for a while.

[anthony a.]

have you heard the paradisea?  im wondering how it compares to the dac60.  also the new promitheus dac should be on your comparsion test as well.

[gitarretyp]

I haven't heard a Paradisea but would really like to if anyone around austin has one they'd let me borrow or bring by to hear. I'd like to hear a Stello DA100 at some point as well.

[NewBuyer]

You mentioned using the SB3 for about a year. Besides those dacs you just mentioned (thanks for these reviews by the way), what other dacs have you auditioned as well? How did they sound, compared to these three?

[gitarretyp]

The only dac i had previously was a Monarchy M22C, but that was a few years ago and my system in entirely different now. Before the SB, i was using an Onkyo DV-SP1000 as my main source with a modded sonic frontiers line 1 se preamp. The real deciding factor at that time was convenience and system simplification. Sonically, i recall the SB was a little better than the onkyo.

[tanchiro58]

SB was a little better than the onkyo.

My modded SB3 with pulse transformer and MHDT modded Renaissance II beats the hell of my previous Electrocompaniet SE CDP ($2500) and my combination Acustic Art transport and Metronome DAC Signature ($4500). This combination (modded SB3+modded MDDT DAC) is the best sounding in my system right now. However, I have never stopped testing another best affordable DAC. Therefore, I will let you know after listening the Promitheus DAC by next week in my system. 

[gitarretyp]

What mods have you done to the renaissance, and have you compared it to the paradisea?

[tanchiro58]

What mods have you done to the renaissance, and have you compared it to the paradisea?

I have modded with pulse transformer SC947-02, signal path with Jensen PIO Copper and Mundorf MP and output with NOS Vintage NOS West-Cap caps with bypass caps.

My friend F100 has a Paradisea which is modded like mine. He also told it has big improvement and sounds more analog than before. Things is I like the sound of 1543 which is lush and musical more than 1545a.

[JoshK]

Nice review!  I like that you did more to describe what you heard than push your opinion.  I have heard the Citypulse and I own the DAC-60.  But even if I hadn't heard them, from your description, I would have chosen the DAC-60 and it would have mirrored my own thoughts. 

[GHM]

I've heard the standard Paradisea against the modded DAC 60 from Pacific valves. You describe the sound of the DAC 60 very well.
The DAC 60 sounds more precise than the original Paradisea in detail retrieval. Body seemed better with the Paradisea to the 3 of us listening that day. My only complaint with the DAC 60 was the top end which sounded a bit hot..it impressed from the start ,but became fatiguing over the long haul.. Other than that, I thought the Dac sounded great. I would like to compare the modified DAC 60 to the newer Paradisea. Too bad my friend doesn't have the DAC 60 anymore for audition.

[Loftprojection]

I also have and RWA SB2 and it mates superbly with a Paradisea.  Like you I started with the SB analog but as soon as I heard it with the Paradisea I could never have gone back to the analog out of the SB.  I would love to compare a DAC60 to a Paradisea but for now I'm ultra satisfied with my Paradisea.

[stryker]

My dac search continues this week with a Channel Islands VDA-2 en route. I'll update this thread once i get a chance to listen to it for a while.

How about some impressions of the VDA-2, eh?  aa

[gitarretyp]

Well, it's time to add to the list:

As i mentioned, i picked-up a CI Audio VDA-2. I got it without the VAC-1 power supply, but i built a similar version of the power supply to try it out using a Hammond transformer. The effect of the supply was small but noticeable, providing improved bass weight and a smoother overall tonality. The comments below refer to the dac with the supply.

The overall tonality of the dac is smooth with a small treble emphasis. The treble emphasis gives the dac a somewhat analog esque tonal quality (it leaves the rest of the spectrum a little recessed). Although the treble is slightly emphasized, it's the cleanest and most accurate treble i've heard in my system. The treble emphasis gives the impression of moving most instruments/singers further back in the soundstage than they maybe should be, but this adds to the depth of the presentation. The bass is a little soft but fast and clean. The mids are smooth and very detailed, with a slightly warm timbre. The dac images more precisely and has a wider/deeper stage than any other i've had. It's also the most detailed without being etched, sibilant, or any of the other audiophile no-nos associated with high levels of detail retrieval. Overall, the dac is highly detailed, fast, and smooth sounding (it's a fantastic rock and electronic music dac).

The real problem i have with this dac is partially due to the forwardness of the treble, more precisely the low treble/upper mids. There's a glare/hardness in that range that can be rather annoying on some recordings. Also, the softness of the bass extends into the lower mids, leading to a lack of warmth and texture in that region.

I have a feeling, a few judicious mods could alleviate the problems i have this dac; however, the case is tiny. So, doing much to it would require a case transplant.

Despite the glare/warmth issue, i could easily live with this dac. Of those i've had in my system, i'd probably choose this dac over the others. Also, i'd imagine the dac would a great match for a system with tubes in the chain somewhere.

My dac search continues with a paradisea i picked-up last week. I'm going to delay posting opinions until i upgrade the opamp. Initial impressions are that it sounds rather strikingly like the VDA-2 when using a raytheon 5670, but with a little more warmth, less detail, and even leaner bass.

[Loftprojection]

My dac search continues with a paradisea i picked-up last week. I'm going to delay posting opinions until i upgrade the opamp. Initial impressions are that it sounds rather strikingly like the VDA-2 when using a raytheon 5670, but with a little more warmth, less detail, and even leaner bass.

Be sure to change the stock tube before reaching any conclusion on the Paradisea.  The WE196a or even bether one of the redbank tubes is a must.  The original Chinese tube do not do justice to this dac.