Promitheus DAC anyone?

low.pfile · « **Reply #160 on:** 11 Sep 2007, 06:23 am »

any update guys?

highdfever · « **Reply #161 on:** 19 Sep 2007, 03:42 pm »

Finally got my DAC and Apollo active preamp.

What a long wait but no regret after connected to my system.

Will report later.

Chan

analogmart · « **Reply #162 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 03:38 am »

Hi everybody,
My DAC is about 150 hours for now. Treble, Mid-range and also detail is really superb with replaced op-amp BB627 but I need to adjust
speaker set up to increase bass. Bass presentation has shown in polite way. Very good for Classical and Jazz music.
You need to try.... : )

highdfever · « **Reply #163 on:** 27 Sep 2007, 12:08 pm »

Agreed. Hard to find a DAC with this kind of performance within the price tag.

Hi Analogmart

How much improvement after replaced the opamp 5534? any other opamp you have tried besides the BB627?

Did you try the Vcap that mentioned earlier?

Chan

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #164 on:** 27 Sep 2007, 08:48 pm »

Quote

Did you try the Vcap that mentioned earlier?

Chan,

According to Nick he personally does not like V-caps. He told me to try Mundorf Silver/Oil 0.1mF. I did try to bypass with Mundorf but I do not like its sound. I also tried Vit.Q PIO which is better than Mundorf to my ears and Vit.Q sound better in my Promitheus DAC. I will try Jensen PIO paper in tube in the future since these caps are expensive ($50-$60 a piece). Jensen Paper in tube caps are the best capacitors IMO. I had installed them in my Sun Audio 2A3 amp and was astounding with the sound performance right now.

Tan

highdfever · « **Reply #165 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 02:38 am »

Hi Tan,

You changed your DA10 to modded Altmann Attraction DAC? Altmann is NOS dac as well, so what is the difference in performance when compared to Prom?

Vitamin Q is not expensive here for this value (is it 0.1uf?), what is the improvement after adding it and where should I terminate it? Have you changed the Opamp for the Prom?

Chan

highdfever · « **Reply #166 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 02:44 am »

Hi Tan,

For Jensen PIO caps, there are aluminium, copper and silver, $50 - 60 for a 0.1uf should be copper one, right.. I know the silver is v.expensive. But some diyers said Jensen has leakage problem after using for awhile.

analogmart · « **Reply #167 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 04:59 am »

Hi, highdfever
BB627 is only op-amp that I've experienced. Detail is better, Mid band and upper is more refind than stock unit.
It cost me about $14 each in my country, which I think it really worth to invest.
By the way, please know that bass is not outstanding but it is there.

Some say that BB637 will give you more solid bass, but 627 is better in tonal balance.
If Rock music is your favorite, you should go to 637. Also AD797 is another choice to play with.

The good thing is....DAC shows the right speed and timing whether you change or do not change Op-amp.
I've not has a plan to do Cap mod for now.

Does anybody has experienced in direct comparison between Prom Dac and Paradesia + ?

Cheers,

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #168 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 05:13 am »

Chan,

Jensen has three different values (less than 1mF/630V) of copper you can use for coupling and bypass. I use the 0.22 mF/630V copper foil/paper in tube for coupling caps in my Sun Audio amp but bypass with 0.022 mF vintage Guderman. The combination is excellent. You can use 0.1 mF
copper foil paper in tube to bypass but you need to try metallized polypropylene caps first before PIO caps in Promi DAC. The sound of PIO bypass caps will not be fast. I just ordered from Nicholas the new version of silver interface transformer (pulse transformer) which sounds much better than the first one and a copper one.

By the way I prefer the Promitheus DAC with some tweaks over the Lavry DA10 I had owned in my system with a fraction of price

anubisgrau · « **Reply #169 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 01:07 pm »

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 28 Sep 2007, 05:13 am

Chan,

Jensen has three different values (less than 1mF/630V) of copper you can use for coupling and bypass. I use the 0.22 mF/630V copper foil/paper in tube for coupling caps in my Sun Audio amp but bypass with 0.022 mF vintage Guderman. The combination is excellent. You can use 0.1 mF
copper foil paper in tube to bypass but you need to try metallized polypropylene caps first before PIO caps in Promi DAC. The sound of PIO bypass caps will not be fast. I just ordered from Nicholas the new version of silver interface transformer (pulse transformer) which sounds much better than the first one and a copper one.

By the way I prefer the Promitheus DAC with some tweaks over the Lavry DA10 I had owned in my system with a fraction of price

how's promi dac vs altmann?

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #170 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 06:09 pm »

Anubisgrau,

One thing I have known that Altmann Attraction DAC with the battery fully charged (90-100%) sounds tighter and more punchier than the battery at 60-80% charged which sounds more relaxed and mellow. That is the beauty of Altmann DAC.

To compare with Promitheus DAC I could not say anything more since I just installed a new silver interface transformer. It sounds more body and powerful than Altmann DAC but it lacks the smoothness. Promitheus DAC needs to break in more and having little more tweaks to compete with other pricier DACs. However, the cost of $385 is an excellent big bang for a buck.

FJK · « **Reply #171 on:** 29 Sep 2007, 03:24 pm »

Tanchiro could you tell us how the Promitheus and Altmann handle complex passages.

I once had a non-oversampling Audio Mirror DAC1 (basically a DAC-AH) and it was a mess. It would get conjested and was unable to decipher details and especially with rock. It was somewhat more in the direction of analogue but I could not handle the huge negative aspect of it as detail would be lost or get all smeared together.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #172 on:** 30 Sep 2007, 01:40 am »

Quote

I once had a non-oversampling Audio Mirror DAC1 (basically a DAC-AH) and it was a mess. It would get conjested and was unable to decipher details and especially with rock. It was somewhat more in the direction of analogue but I could not handle the huge negative aspect of it as detail would be lost or get all smeared together.

FJK,

I am not sure about the complex passages. I choose Promitheus and Altmann Attaraction DACs because they have not only smooth details and musical but also tremendous bass. If you are combining Promitheus DAC with tube gears you will hear the excellent performance of this DAC. I think the combination of Altmann DAC and BYOB amp's performance is another great one but you need to have high efficient speakers. Besides you do not worry about the congestion which would never happen to these DACs if you play rock music.

highdfever · « **Reply #173 on:** 30 Sep 2007, 05:13 am »

Hi FJK,

I am using Lite Dac50 (heavily modified) and to me, most of the similar prices DACs from China are not good in handling complex passages. I can easily hear distortion when listening to music such as Carmina Burana and other complex music. My Prom DAC is running for 200 hrs now and it is much better in handling complex music with better details, separation, sound stage, transient and speed. Only the vocal / mid band is not as good as Dac 50 probably due to the tube magic or maybe most of the chinese DACs were made to emphasis this area.

I believe the performance could be improved more after some modification of the Opamp, Cap and pulse transformer and isolation damping.

Chan

FJK · « **Reply #174 on:** 30 Sep 2007, 10:15 am »

That is encouraging that both of you say that the Promitheus can handle complex passages.
Although highdfever you say it is "much better". Does that mean there is no audible congestion/distortion or just a very small amount.
On one hand it would be nice to have tubes inside the Promitheus like your Dac50 but whenever I read comments about comparisons between non-tube and tube based Dacs there seems to be a common complaint that the tube based Dacs are like you describe. Less detail,speration, soundstage, transient and speed but great in the mids.

I think Dacs should first and foremost be able to perform their basic function. That is to convert the entire signal from digital to analogue (and without distortion). There is nothing upstream that will bring it back. is This is why I am very cautious in revisiting non-oversampling Dacs, tube or non-tubed. I think it is the same thing that keeps me from buying a very low powered SET amp that I sometimes lust for but I know would be just power shy for me. If it can't perform its basic role in driving my speakers then what good is it to me.

Having said that and currently running conventional oversampling, my battle is trying to counter the mechanical/eletronikey sound I get from it, which is why I still might give another non-os DAC a shot.

analogmart · « **Reply #175 on:** 30 Sep 2007, 11:42 am »

Hi Music Lover,
I got the good result with 1.5 M. Belden 1694A digital cable from Bluejean cable. At least, in my system with Prom Dac, it
outperformed the other 2 cables which cost around $150-$200. This Belden shares the same strong point in speed and timing
with Prom Dac and it cost you only $15.

With my experienced, this cable can improve its performance by using cryogenic process too. After treatment, it can easily deal with complex music like overture song, image is stable. Mid range and upper tone got more transparent and better detail.

FJK,
Considered the cost of the Dac and ability to handle Rock or Calssical music, I can not give any complaint.

Mart,

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #176 on:** 30 Sep 2007, 05:12 pm »

Quote

Only the vocal / mid band is not as good as Dac 50 probably due to the tube magic or maybe most of the chinese DACs were made to emphasis this area.

Highdfever,

I do not have problems in this area in my system. In the contrary, I do have the bloom of vocals and midrange. This part of Promitheus DAC sounds exactly like the Altmann Attraction DAC in my system. The vocals and midrange are the most part of my concern that is why I kept changing to find this best part in different DACs.

If you like to have the best vocals and midrange but not lack of details,he separation and bottom you need to order the new version of silver pulse transformer from Nick. He had tested this pulse transformer in his tube system before sent it to me. I do not think the idea of swapping op amp is the best idea. Besides you need to try to connect your Promi DAC to the Promi TVC you will see how revealing is your music.

Regards,
Tan

highdfever · « **Reply #177 on:** 1 Oct 2007, 09:32 am »

Hi Tan,

I found the sound from Prom Dac is just right, more balance than my tube DAC. I would get a silver pulse transformer from Nick who has promised me earlier due to the long waiting time. Hope he still remember. aa

I am using Apollo preamp now but I found that one of the channel is out-phrase and I need to revert the (+ & - ) of speaker cable for my left speaker in order to make it sound right. Not sure which channel (left or right) got problem. Any method or simple equipment can check this out? Initially I was so surprised to hear why suddenly the sound stage is so hugh and extend towards the left and right, but then I realized that there is no imaging and vocal is not in the center.

Besides, I found there is a hum sound coming out from my speaker (not the Apollo problem because my GG preamp also has the same problem and that's why I was using Luminous Axiom Passive Preamp earlier and I finally found Prom TVC). There is no problem and the background is so quiet when I use the passive mode (BTW, TVC is much better than normal volume/resistor passive), but the hum sound came out immediately once I turn to active mode. I have tried to disconnect all the interconnects and sources, just connected the preamp and power amp (tried both ground or unground power cables) but the hum sound is still there. What would be the problem and any suggestions?

Hi FJK,

I havent tried many DACs with big name, but I like the sound of my friends' Benchmark DAC 1 and Apogee Rosetta. They both sound real with dynamic sound, good in handling complex musics and of course, no audible congestion/distortion but some may said not musical enough. Well, it is not fair to compare Prom DAC to them because it is only around 1/3 the prices of Benchmark and 1/5 of Apogee but I can tell that Prom is not far from them. Prom can handle complex music as well, may not as good as the above DAC but I found the music coming out for Prom is more listenable, can we say more musical...

I hope after some modification (such as silver pulse transformer, BHP damping, Cap...etc, anyway, not expensive) as suggested by other user, the vocal / midband will be just like the tube Dac, and other areas such as definition, soundstage, imaging, speed and timber will close to Apogee..

Enjoy
Chan

analogmart · « **Reply #178 on:** 1 Oct 2007, 11:38 am »

Hi Tan,
My DAC is also comes with silver pulse transformer but I never experience the difference between normal version and this one.

According to Dac manual, Nick said, "The NE5545 has a good midrange and mid bass but lacks in the areas of transparency and highs
extension, PRAT, speed and lower bass. The N5545 is sitting in a turn pin socket allowing you to change the OPAMP used. As long as
you stick to a single opamp, any other opamp can be used as long as their power suupply can withstand 13.6V."

So far as I know, The operation voltage range in most opamp is 5v -15v. so, it is fine to experience by yourself. Swapping opamp is as same as swapping tube to fine tune your preference sound and performance.

This is what Nick replied me about BB627.

Mart,
The 627 would be better sound staging with better highs and a more refine sound but less bass
What digital cable are you using?
Cheers
Nicholas

Next step,
I ordered 1.5 Belden1694A BNC type from Bluejean to compare with the RCA version with Cryo treat.
I should get it about next week.

Best Regards,
Mart,

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #179 on:** 1 Oct 2007, 05:40 pm »

Highdfever,

I do not have problem with vocals not in the center. You would also need Nick's power cable for your Promi DAC and I just found out my experience of not tight down (take off the four screws that hold the DAC board to the bottom plate) the DAC pcb it would give you more musicality and dimensionality. One more thing if you can find to replace all wires around the output transformers and connectors with a pure copper plated with silver this would bring the DAC to another level of smoothness and clarity (dead quiet background).

Analogmart,

You need to ask Nick the new version of silver pulse transformer wounded on thin laminated donut core (0.05mm thickness). I had the old copper one it sounded very bright then I wounded another one myself with copper 30 ga it still sounded bright and thin. The new silver pulse transformer give you a thick sound with decays but not lack of separation, musicality and dimensionality. I am also very astounding the amount of defined bass coming out from my VR1 monitors (I do not need a subwoofer) in my big living room.

I use Zu Ash digital cable and all custombuilt ICs. Now the DAC is connected to TVC with an Audioquest BNC digital cable. Remember my SB3 is modded with a SC947-02 pulse transformer and I built myself a linear PS for SB3. What source do you have?