Promitheus DAC anyone?

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #40 on:** 22 Jun 2007, 10:26 pm »

Quote

Are you meaning that this DAC tends to a warm and soft side? Not punchy enough from some rock/dynamic music? How about the definition and soundstage?

Andis,

The sound of my Promitheus DAC is very very punchy with every notes (I listened to Hotel California of Eagles I like it much more than my modded MHDT Renaissance II which leans more to soft site and no punchy sound at all).

I like the most of this DAC when I listen to a guitar musics (electric or acoustic) the notes of a musician fingers on strings are clearly noticed without brightness (mostly in electric guitar). Besides vocals like deep voice of Patricia Barber and Diana Krall are more impressive than before.

The sound leans more to rounded warm sound but not lack of details and punchy (it needs more hours break-in to produce a deep punchy bass but not overhanged based on user's guide and rollo).

I think Nick has designed this DAC for you guys musics but he also tried to mix match little bit on warm side but clear and clean for asian or oriental musics. However, it is depending on your transport or CDP or SB3 and your digital cable too and your whole system (do you have SS or tube gears?).

Soundstage is wide opened in your listening area but not spread to everywhere in your room (I am not sure of this since I just installed the Eighthnerve rectangles and corners in my room). In my opinion the best way to check the soundstage of your system is you seat on one spot you like also when you step out of the room or go to the next room which share same wall with your music room. If you like the sound in the three locations I just mentioned you can conclude that your system is good to excellent.

I can not tell you about the comparison between modded Renaissance II and Promitheus DAC since the Promitheus DAC still needs more time to break-in. But I can tell you the Renaissance (tube) has more lush sound which I like in some of my musics than Promitheus (non-tube). Who knows after a couple weeks later. I will let you know then.

I hope you will get the Apollo and DAC soon. You will enjoy your synergistic system. Have a good listening.

Tan

1000a · « **Reply #41 on:** 22 Jun 2007, 10:40 pm »

thanks Tan I can not wait to hear more from you as the time clicks away and continues to open up the Promi DAC.

highdfever · « **Reply #42 on:** 23 Jun 2007, 12:59 am »

Hi tanchiro58

Tks for the prompt reply. Please let us know more about the DAC after broken in.

goskers · « **Reply #43 on:** 26 Jun 2007, 10:00 pm »

Have there been anymore updates regarding this dac??

I sent Nicholas an email looking for some internal information about the dac including receiver chip and other opamps used and have heard no reply. I am also interested in the advancements of the c core trannie.

Any help would be appreciated here.

Thanks

anthony a. · « **Reply #44 on:** 26 Jun 2007, 11:34 pm »

some pics of the unit would be great also. his site only shows the inside. anyone?

1000a · « **Reply #45 on:** 26 Jun 2007, 11:38 pm »

some info came out on the "TVC passive anyone thread" recently , I believe Nick said he is using the TDA 1545 phillips, I have not seen any pictures other than that 1 image. it should look alot like the TVC box very similar I am told.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #46 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 12:01 am »

Quote

some internal information about the dac including receiver chip and other opamps used

goskers,

I can see in my Promitheus DAC that Nick uses CS 8414 receiver chip and two Phillips TDA 1545A NE5534 (I do not know why two?). The opamps I did not pay attention their brands. M3 Output transformers C-cores trannies he will use in Statement tube DAC and it is not available yet. You can order one in advance since it will take more than two months.

anthony a.,

The SS DAC body looks like the TVC you have except it has an IEC, a switch for BNC or RCA digital input which is not shown in his picture and a pair of RCA ouputs. Once again it does not have an on/off switch and a light indicator. I wish I can take pictures of my DAC but I gave my digital camera to my brother.

To everyone is interested my Promitheus SS DAC is in 6 days break-in time the sound is more focus and less harsh (bright and dry sound at the beginning). It is now more smoother especially sweeter in the midrange, punchier and deep bass noticed (it is depending to your digital cable also).

I have a chance to test with two different digital cables (one is a good coper one and other DIY pure silver of audio consulting wire). The copper has more body and punchier. The silver is more musical, softer but more deep bass. Both have big soundstage. I still have more time to let the DAC breaking in (let's say one more week).

Gaara · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 12:11 am »

Another DAC to use this chip. Now DIY Paradise uses the TDA 1545 in their Monica II, MHDT in the Paradisea and Constantine as well as Ack Industries in their dAck!.

Maybe one chip is used for each channel, or maybe in parallel like the LIte Audio DAC-AH.

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 04:09 am »

Quote from: goskers on 26 Jun 2007, 10:00 pm

Have there been anymore updates regarding this dac??

I sent Nicholas an email looking for some internal information about the dac including receiver chip and other opamps used and have heard no reply. I am also interested in the advancements of the c core trannie.

Any help would be appreciated here.

Thanks

Goskers
I might have miss your email on this. IF you can resend that would be great
Here are the chips use

CS8414 Crystal
TDA1545 Philips
NE5534 Philips

The power supply transistors are
l7805, l317, l337, bc546 and bc556

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 04:16 am »

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 27 Jun 2007, 12:01 am

Quote
some internal information about the dac including receiver chip and other opamps used

goskers,

I can see in my Promitheus DAC that Nick uses CS 8414 receiver chip and two Phillips TDA 1545A NE5534 (I do not know why two?). The opamps I did not pay attention their brands. M3 Output transformers C-cores trannies he will use in Statement tube DAC and it is not available yet. You can order one in advance since it will take more than two months.

anthony a.,

The SS DAC body looks like the TVC you have except it has an IEC, a switch for BNC or RCA digital input which is not shown in his picture and a pair of RCA ouputs. Once again it does not have an on/off switch and a light indicator. I wish I can take pictures of my DAC but I gave my digital camera to my brother.

To everyone is interested my Promitheus SS DAC is in 6 days break-in time the sound is more focus and less harsh (bright and dry sound at the beginning). It is now more smoother especially sweeter in the midrange, punchier and deep bass noticed (it is depending to your digital cable also).

I have a chance to test with two different digital cables (one is a good coper one and other DIY pure silver of audio consulting wire). The copper has more body and punchier. The silver is more musical, softer but more deep bass. Both have big soundstage. I still have more time to let the DAC breaking in (let's say one more week).

The brand of the opamp is important, it is made by Philips. I tried 4 different 5534 and the philips are far superior here. why 2 opamps. Simple when you merge the left and right channel signal into 1 opamp you would lose channel separation, imaging and soundstaging. However what a manufacture gains is cost. You would have less power supply decoupling, the 2 opamps have their own dedicated power supply to decouple them from the master power supply and plus soldering the extra components .

For me i would not make that compromise. So that is why you have 2 opamps

The DAC is a transparent piece of equipment, so whether you use BNC or RCA or your digital cable you can hear alot of difference.

have you tried out mechanical spikes? i use my ebony cones here .The dac loves the proper isolation just like the tvc. Also bear in mind the DAC is a fully loaded transformer piece that means longer burn in time than normal. Also like the TVC i notice the first few hours the sounds changes a far bit too

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 05:26 am »

Quote

have you tried out mechanical spikes? i use my ebony cones here .The dac loves the proper isolation just like the tvc. Also bear in mind the DAC is a fully loaded transformer piece that means longer burn in time than normal.

Nick,

I place the three pieces of wood footers between the DAC and a Delrin Acetale Black platform and notice a big change. I just wrapped the three transformers and all wires with ERS sheets and found the sound is more focus and sweeter even though the break-in time is slightly over 100 hours.

Tan

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #51 on:** 27 Jun 2007, 07:04 am »

Tan
I need your personnel image so that i can send you the picture of the power cord i use with my current DAC

I am glad you find the cones helps

Now to buy some ERS sheets , and try that i out

audioFreaK · « **Reply #52 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 01:32 am »

last two(2) i 've got a Promi's DAC personally delivered by Nic by himself.
this is the 2nd piece of gear which i've got from Nic besides the reference version of the TVC which remains as a gem in my
humble system.

It has been run-in for a day now ~ i was really impressed with the result of the Promi's DAC with my JVC DVD player. The current setup is JVC DVD Player --> Promi's DAC--> Promi's ref. TVC --> DIY Kit KT88 (running in triode) --> Rogers Ls3/5a

I played my favourite track "what the world needs now" by Stacey Kent. The immediate effect i got is the piano sound has fuller-bodied and weight ~ i can even feels the piano decay effects after each note which i didn't encounter before this. Not to mention the soundstage has increased tremendously. When she beginning to sing "... what the world needs now.... " the sibiliance which used to exist is entirely gone !!! AMAZING!!! my heart continously flow with the music...

The 2nd track which i've played is Jheena Lodwick-perhaps love ~ the sound of the guitar strokes is more obvious and body to it.At the middle of the track ... "... perhaps love... " the snare drum simultaneously surface on the song at the background with good timing.

Then i swap to Celine Dion-Where is the love.
i must mention the hand drum has improvement on the depth and the triangle which i've not heard before this ! I also got more bass ~i changed my mind not getting any AB1 subwoofer .

i also attached a picture of the internal Promi's DAC as for yr reference. The upgrades are V-Cap and AuriCap for + supply~ which is well-worth spent.
Ok can't get to listen to another of my favourite track..

Tsai Chin- "Du Ko" (Ferry) A famous Taiwanese Singer.. tho i really don't understand much Chinese yet i still enjoy this very much especially MUST be with the Promi's DAC !

Nic, thank you very much as i really enjoy it ~ hope you can drop by more often and listen for yrself to see how's this Promi's DAC gets better and better daily.

Gaara · « **Reply #53 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 01:21 pm »

Just a FYI on that PS, I ordered some black hold pad back on June 19th and it still hasn't shipped from speaker city. I emailed them about it and was informed that "BH products are on back order for 5 days.". That email was sent on the 27th so I wouldn't expect my order to be fulfilled for a few days...and I ordered a lot.

Long story short if you order some it may take a extra week or so to get it because of the back order / my impulsiveness.

gooberdude · « **Reply #54 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 04:32 pm »

I had to wait about 3 weeks the last time I ordered from Speaker City as well. Seems like we need a new supplier of the magic material.

If anyone wants a small amount of it though, lemme know. I still have 2 whole sheets i may not ever use.

damping the transformers in my TVC was a ridiculous tweak, and the improvement certainly was in the bass department, but not at the expense of other sonics...

gooberdude · « **Reply #55 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 08:04 pm »

I've only applied BHP under a huge plate amp tranny, not under my TVC's. From what i've read about BHP, it was deisgned to go under trannies though.

i placed it on the 3 exposed sides of my TVC trannies, covering the metal shield around the winding. I used 3 indiv 1" wide strips, it wouldn't hurt to use thinner pieces though. a little BHP goes a long way.

If you've ever done a tweak that immediately enhances the bass performance, but didn't seem to affect other areas, but after a day or 2 of settling it seems like everything is improved...that's more or less what i'm talking about. Too often i've done small things that improved the bass and somehow this improved everything else. So, now when i tweak i listen for the bass and assume the rest will fall in line. to date, it always has.

i'd give your DAC 3-4 weeks of burn-in before tweaking a thing though. every new piece of 'whatever' that i've bought in this hobby has always taken a month - 400 hrs. as we found out with the TVC's, its those trannies that take time to sweeten up. Let 'em cure and then tweak your heart out!

When you get around to this, do the power tranny first. i'll assume that vibes the most. kinda crazy that the tweak works on the TVC. but, i may just be damping that metal shield...dunno know.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #56 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 08:45 pm »

Gooberdude,

Thank you for your quick reply.

I had the DAC about a week. In the first couple days it had nice warm rounded sound but after that suddenly the sound has changed to harsh and dry. I did wrap the PS and output trannies with ERS cloth and hope will cure the problems . Listened again the sound was smoothing out and even clean and clear with more details. It last only two days and the harsh and bright sound was coming back again. Therefore, I had to reduce from 2V to 1V gain (first time I see in the DAC). Now it is going back to normal like before. So what is your suggestion?

Gordy · « **Reply #57 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 09:10 pm »

I've never found ERS to do anything but deteriorate analog signals, it seems to help when used in power and sections and digital chips etc. I'd try removing the paper from your output transformers and see if that helps clean your signal back up again!

gooberdude · « **Reply #58 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 09:29 pm »

I totally agree with Gordy, ERS can muck things up in a big way. It works well inside my power strip though, so i do think its great for AC applications, but terrible anywhere close to an audio signal is passing through. I've not owned a DAC though, and lots of folk say ERS can aid them...

I think you're best bet is remove the ERS and just wait out the burn-in...let the DAC play when you are at work and sleeping to speed it up. Occasionally i've heard issues like you have, where the goodness fades in and out...but i think that's just a nasty artifact of burn-in. patience really is the key with new gear, assuming you don't have a burn-in machine.

no matter if its a tiny rca connector, speaker cables, pc's or gear...i always give it a month to settle.

I'd shoot Nick an e-mail and ask him too...

i'm considering buying some kind of burn-in device, maybe hagerman's. the wait is just so painful!

Say · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Jul 2007, 01:06 am »

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 2 Jul 2007, 08:45 pm

Gooberdude,

Thank you for your quick reply.

I had the DAC about a week. In the first couple days it had nice warm rounded sound but after that suddenly the sound has changed to harsh and dry. I did wrap the PS and output trannies with ERS cloth and hope will cure the problems . Listened again the sound was smoothing out and even clean and clear with more details. It last only two days and the harsh and bright sound was coming back again. Therefore, I had to reduce from 2V to 1V gain (first time I see in the DAC). Now it is going back to normal like before. So what is your suggestion?

Good going with the dac. Hope you have lots of fun with it.

Don't get all hyper during the burn in process. A premature amelioration would just disguise the sound and not really improve it in the long run. You must wait for the burn in process to have it's eventual effect. We all wait it out. Usually a component is heavy on the bass at first. Then the highs get all tizzy. This will go on back and forth till it settles. Nothing can change that. You don't even need music burning in continuously for a month. A few hours each day will do the trick. Once the month is clear you could fiddle by tweaking.

Ers paper is really good at taming power conditioners. With transformers its a mixed bag. Trial and error. A good explanation on burn in is on this page: http://www.skywireaudio.com/tech.php

look up: Using Skywire Audio cables and Skywire Cables Design Theory