Promitheus DAC anyone?

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #200 on:** 15 Nov 2007, 07:05 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 15 Nov 2007, 09:43 am

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 14 Nov 2007, 11:03 pm
...I have a Benchmark DAC that I use for my meager home recording studio hobby and it's really wearing on me. I would like to get something that is more in line with my Audio Note DAC so that I don't have to mentally switch gears, if that makes any sense...

So, what's wrong with the Benchmark DAC? Just curious...

There is nothing wrong with the Benchmark DAC1. It's a fine DAC of it's category, but I can't tolerate it anymore.

I bought my DAC1 when it first came out, long before Stereophile wrote anything about it. I didn't make the purchase based on any hype or wonderful reviews, it was more about trying to get the right tool for the right job. I was under the impression that studio gear such as dacs and monitors should be ruler flat, unforgiving accurate, and have no personality of their own. This is a philosophy that I no longer subscribe to. I have no problem that it works well for others, it's just not for me. I hope that makes some sense.

Since I communicate better with technologies such as non-oversampling dacs and single ended triodes (or pentodes), this is how I have been rebuilding my home studio. (Sold my Mackie HR824s too. Replaced them with the Almarro A205A and Omega Max Hemps.)

So it's not really a right or wrong statement that I was trying to make. It's just the direction that I need to go. To anyone who loves their Benchmark DAC, please don't stop loving it on account of me.

analogmart · « **Reply #201 on:** 16 Nov 2007, 09:38 am »

Hi Quiet Earth,
Please tell us more when you get Prom Dac and compare it to your Dac1.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #202 on:** 16 Nov 2007, 06:18 pm »

Thanks analogmart. That may be a bit of a wait. With the holidays nearly upon us, I will likely wait until 2008 to make a purchase. Right now I'm still in the homework stage of searching for a good value in a NON OS dac. Part of me really wants to save up and upgrade my home stereo to a 4.1x dac, then move the 2.1X into the studio. The rest of me says just use what I have and be grateful. I'll probably split the difference somewhere down the line next year. I'm pretty sure I can get at least 400 for my Benchmark, or use it for a softsynth DAC.

If/when I pick up the Promitheus DAC I will post my impressions here and bump the thread. Right now there's turkey dinners to prepare, travel expenses, and Christmas activities creeping into the checkbook. Tis the season.

analogmart · « **Reply #203 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 11:06 am »

I bet that output transformer in Prom Dac will makes you impress!!

(based on your Audio note standard)

Telstar · « **Reply #204 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 11:18 pm »

*subscribed*
aa

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #205 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 11:26 am »

Please help us to post your votes for Promitheusaudio to have its own forum
here
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=47718.0

THank you

NIcholas Chua
Promitheusaudio

Michaeden · « **Reply #206 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 11:56 am »

Promitheus C-Core DAC - I went this route because I wanted to hear everything. I don't really want filtering and correction at any stage of Red Book reproduction beyond the necessary. Ideally, if I could chew on a cd and the music would vibrate through my mouth and into my ears, I would opt for that, albeit it would be too selfish as I love to share music. This is just an opinion. I feel hifi it is about allowing the technology to optimise itself with humane propositions - natural and refined materials to compliment the resonance of the technology , openness with regard to the full sound that is produced, respect of the sensitivity of our ear organ. Purity is also just an idea that sits alongside the proposition of hifi and the idea is just as attractive as its implementation. This is not 'hairshirt' in any way, it is a route in tune with our environment and how we learn to understand complex sounds, not a wall of information which other approaches value, an exciting isolated experience, but not an integral visceral one that is linked to the experience of living in sound. Having said that, I am not a fan of valves for their often confused midrange. I am a firm believer that all materials can be to resonate efficiently under the correct conditions and valves are an easy way out of careful design. Sold state can be accurate because it resonates with more precision. Making solid state sing is an art to which the Promitheus DAC is a school of.
You won't be surprised by the set up then: Promitheus C-Core Solid State DAC, 47 Labs Shigaraki Transport, First Watt F-1 Amp, Lowther DX4 on a custom build open baffle, and soon to have Promitheus C-Core Transformer Passive Pre, once I sell my Audio Synthesis Decade Desire Monoblocks, which are themselves a slice of English Hifi heaven, but obviously too much for my Lowthers to take! Any interest out there, let me know. Best wishes Nick of Promitheus. Micha

dainapoo · « **Reply #207 on:** 12 Dec 2007, 04:10 pm »

Hi tanchiro58,

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been changing jobs. Yes, I believe that's right - it is the newer DAC with the board underneath. I'm still very satisfied with the sound. It's a very big improvement over the Squeezebox's own DAC - that's for sure. Virtually everything I've played through it has been a revelation - meaning hearing a nuance or an instrument that I had not noticed before. It's getting near break in, but it's been sweet and 'analog' sounding pretty much since day one. I'm experimenting with different gain settings at the moment. I'm currently running Signal Cable's Silver Resolution Digital Coax between the SB and the DAC and their Analog Two cables between the DAC and the Promitheus TVC. The DAC is connected to power via their Magic Power Digital Reference power cable. I'm not a cable expert, but since finding SC's stuff on Audiogon, I've been very happy with the sound, construction and value. I also use their Magic Power power cord for my Conrad Johnson amp. Might try Nicholas's cables one of these days. I'm using stock Nyutah wood feet. Thanks!

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #208 on:** 12 Dec 2007, 06:01 pm »

Quote from: dainapoo on 12 Dec 2007, 04:10 pm

Hi tanchiro58,

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been changing jobs. Yes, I believe that's right - it is the newer DAC with the board underneath. I'm still very satisfied with the sound. It's a very big improvement over the Squeezebox's own DAC - that's for sure. Virtually everything I've played through it has been a revelation - meaning hearing a nuance or an instrument that I had not noticed before. It's getting near break in, but it's been sweet and 'analog' sounding pretty much since day one. I'm experimenting with different gain settings at the moment. I'm currently running Signal Cable's Silver Resolution Digital Coax between the SB and the DAC and their Analog Two cables between the DAC and the Promitheus TVC. The DAC is connected to power via their Magic Power Digital Reference power cable. I'm not a cable expert, but since finding SC's stuff on Audiogon, I've been very happy with the sound, construction and value. I also use their Magic Power power cord for my Conrad Johnson amp. Might try Nicholas's cables one of these days. I'm using stock Nyutah wood feet. Thanks!

Dainapoo,

Good to hear back from you. If you do not mind would you have a chance to take a picture of your Promitheus DAC with a wooden board underneath the pbc (what kind of wood are you using?)? I have tweaked around my Promi DAC using different wires and will try pure silver wires. Right now I wired around the OPT with double stranded 30-35ga copper silver plated and digital inputs and outputs RCA. The sound leans more to analog but little lost of details. I am using Zu Ash digital cable (the most musical cable I have owned) and power the DAC with Nick's PC.

I got the Promitheus Apollo preamp which is a good match to the DAC. I am tweaking around with the preamp by replacing the step attenuators and the rotary switch and replace the stock caps with BGs. Next I will replace all wires with pure silver wires since it sounds too warm to me.

Regards,
Tan

dainapoo · « **Reply #209 on:** 12 Dec 2007, 09:31 pm »

Hi Tan,

Yeah, I think I can do that. I'll see about getting a pic and posting it. So, how are you liking the Apollo? You had the TVC before, right? How do they compare? It's interesting that you mention warmth when describing the Apollo. Would you describe the TVC in a similar manner? The reason I'm asking is that I've been out of the game for quite awhile until recently. I was in the business back in the 70's and early 80's, and for a long time, when I did listen to new digital equipment, it was what I'd call lean and clinical (or scratchy etc - you know what I mean - the old digital sound). It's only been in the last year that I've been replacing all my old equipment, which is how I stumbled onto the Promitheus. My decisions are getting better the further I go- my first two decisions were based on a combination of old thinking and lack of funds. First, I found some Vandersteen 2CE's locally and cheap, which was a recommendation from an old audiophile friend of mine. I went to a local dealer and listened to them and they were 'good enough', although my friend and I have always had slightly different tastes. The second was the CJ amp - MV 60 SE- it was just a holdover from my days in the biz - I'd never owned tube gear and wanted to. I found it locally through Audiogon. Somewhere in there I got the Squeezebox and I still had my first turntable - a 1975 Thorens TD 160 - which I've done a couple of things to, but is basically stock. (Sold a Linn I had 12 years ago or so). I'd hardly owned any cd's but had gotten pretty sophisticated in downloading and ripping to hard drive and turned one of my old computers into a music server for the SB. Anyway, what I'm getting at is, if anything, this system sounds a little warm to me. I would admit that I've always liked a slightly brighter sound that some of my other audiophile pals, but, having decided to just keep the Thorens going for now with a little Cambridge Audio phono preamp, I replaced my Grado cartridge with a new Ortofon 2M. It's got a brighter sounding character and now my analog rig is actually brighter sounding than my digital source. So, I'm in the process of trying to figure out where the 'warmth' is coming from. I suspect the combination of speakers and amp are part of it, but I'd like to hear what you think.

Take care,
Daina

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #210 on:** 12 Dec 2007, 10:04 pm »

Hello Daina,

Actually the first pcb DAC was harsh and stiff and I tried to tweak around until I messed up with the solder joint (could not solder the components to pcb). I asked Nick to replace the new pcb DAC. Finally Nick sent me a new pcb and a new pulse interface transformer. I did not do any further modification on the pcb due to my previous bad experiment. After soldering the new pcb to the DAC I noticed there was a big improvement sonically compared to the previous PCB. Like I said I only replaced wires and padded the components and transformers of the DAC with Black Hole Pads. I got good result with warm sounding but less details. You are right maybe the sound is too warm because of the rest of the system (mine is all tube except the sources SB3 and DAC). I am awaiting the Burson Discrete Opamps to replace the stock opamps NE5534s. I will let you know once the new opamps broken in.

The Apollo preamp is another higher level of passive TVC (tube buffer+ TVC). I have owned couple TVCs before and know that any TVCs in my system just give musicality and smoothness but no body or punchy sound. Therefore, the Apolllo preamp has added some juice to my system. However, since I would like to bring it to another level of musicality I have started to do some more tweaks especially my concentration is in the signal path. I will show some pictures of my tweaks for the Promitheus DAC and Apollo preamp.

Regards,
Tan

Milenko27 · « **Reply #211 on:** 13 Dec 2007, 11:23 am »

Hello i am new to this forum (from Norway, so sorry for my bad English), i am looking for a dac to use in my tube based system (my first dac ever) and were thinking about the moodlab concept but then i came across the Promitheus on this board and found it to be very interesting. I was wondering if you all still are extremely satisfied with its sound? The silver pulse transformer option how does it better the sound of this dac? How much more do i have to pay to get anything better? I hate digital "hizz" in upper midrange, is there any "hizz" and hard sound with this dac?
That was alot of questions, i hope someone will answer...

Sincerly Svein

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #212 on:** 13 Dec 2007, 01:53 pm »

Quote from: Milenko27 on 13 Dec 2007, 11:23 am

Hello i am new to this forum (from Norway, so sorry for my bad English), i am looking for a dac to use in my tube based system (my first dac ever) and were thinking about the moodlab concept but then i came across the Promitheus on this board and found it to be very interesting. I was wondering if you all still are extremely satisfied with its sound? The silver pulse transformer option how does it better the sound of this dac? How much more do i have to pay to get anything better? I hate digital "hizz" in upper midrange, is there any "hizz" and hard sound with this dac?
That was alot of questions, i hope someone will answer...
Sincerly Svein

Milenko27,

So far I have owned more than 10 DACs (upsampling, oversampling and NOS). I sold the others and keep my Promitheus DAC and Altmann Attraction DAC. Both are NOS DACs and do not have digital sound ("hizz in the midrange"). I also have tweaked the DACs so I can have the sound I expected in my system. It also depends on your other components of your system. That is why people called matching system or system synergy.

Talking about Promitheus DAC. IMO Nicholas Chua designed this DAC based on his knowledge of Audio Note and/or Altmann Attraction DACs with a fraction of price. I do not know what sound do you prefer for your system but I do like warm, musicality but not less details especially separation. If you own Promitheus DAC and tweak around you will get what you expect soundwise. That is the beauty of it. Besides the pulse interface transformer is very important to the side of transmitter and receiver in the digital part and also the jitter reduction.

Hope I answer your questions but please do not hesitate to ask more questions if you are interested in modifying and tweaking the DAC.

Good luck and take care,
Tan

Milenko27 · « **Reply #213 on:** 13 Dec 2007, 10:59 pm »

Thank you for answering my questions, i believe i will order the Promitheus dac next month, has to get over the christmas rush first. I have a Cardas high speed data cable (75 ohm) will that cable work ok with this dac (i use cardas cables everywhere else in my chain and am happy with that)?
Sincerly Svein.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #214 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 07:57 am »

Quote

I have a Cardas high speed data cable (75 ohm) will that cable work ok with this dac (i use cardas cables everywhere else in my chain and am happy with that)?

Svein,

If your system is solid state you can keep your Cardas and ordering the Promitheus DAC which will add the warmest tube sound to your system (if it is analytically sounding). I have to warn you the DAC is more to the tubey sound even though it is a solid state DAC.

Tan

anthony a. · « **Reply #215 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 05:04 pm »

tanchiro, would you say it is warmer than the paradisea dac? how would you describe their differences?
(i own the paradisea and am interested in getting the promi). thanks.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #216 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 06:37 pm »

Quote from: anthony a. on 14 Dec 2007, 05:04 pm

tanchiro, would you say it is warmer than the paradisea dac? how would you describe their differences?
(i own the paradisea and am interested in getting the promi). thanks.

I would say I am not sure about this comparison since I do not own Paradisea but I listened to it in my system before. Paradisea DAC has warm and musical sound based on the output tube stage but I still heard the digital sound unless it is modified (output caps and pulse transformer) and Promitheus DAC sounds warm and more juice too but very little digital sound since it has pulse interface transformer and output transformers which are wounded same as TVC trannies. However, I have tweaked it around to get the jitter reduction as much as I can. After tweaking the Promitheus DAC I always compare to my Attraction DAC which has the warmest sound but not less details and more less jitter.

Tan

Milenko27 · « **Reply #217 on:** 16 Dec 2007, 05:44 pm »

I really love a warm sound, my set up is tube based, but it is not extremely warm, so i think a dac with tube like warmth would make me happy...

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #218 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 08:06 pm »

Hi Daina,

I just finished installing a pine wood board under the pcb DAC. I have noticed the sound has more smooth details and more sweetness in midrange. Here is a picture. Did you have like this?

Sorry for the blurred pictures

Tan

anthony a. · « **Reply #219 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 07:15 am »

i've been talking with nick lately and have decided to put in an order for one. i am also considering hooking up my dvd player to it for 2 channel HT (i only have stereo for my "HT"). however, i am not sure if it is a good idea as i am not very happy with the paradisea's "HT" performance but i loove it for 2 channel music. anyone doing this with good results? i am currently using my denon 2930 dvd player as stereo source for movies (HT).

thanks.