So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same?

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jneutron

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Re: So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same?
« Reply #40 on: 16 Jul 2007, 03:08 pm »
Thanks John. Wasn't sure if you caught my post before it got zapped by the Ministry of Information :lol:.
cheers,
AJ

Got the e-mail notification.  They can't delete those.

You were a bad boy, eh?

Cheers, John

AJinFLA

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  • Soundfield Audio Loudspeakers
    • Soundfield Audio
Re: So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same?
« Reply #41 on: 16 Jul 2007, 05:12 pm »
You were a bad boy, eh?

Were? :lol:
Been spending more time on DIYaudio. Some interesting threads on things like waveguides, speaker/room interaction, etc. recently (Yeah, I know, I know, extremely subtle audible impact/relevance as compared to the humongous wires/amps/death/taxes stuff).

cheers,

AJ

Summer

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Re: So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same? Yes
« Reply #42 on: 11 Aug 2007, 05:41 am »
Friends,

If you do, you use to be in good company.  I used to think the same thing myself.  "Use good wire and good connectors...and that's it."  Wrong. :nono:

I don't expect most of your to understand (or even take the time to read) a lot of the following.  But...if you can even begin to wrap your head around Hawksford's paper - there's hope for you.

Funny thing is, this paper has been out for a LONG time...something like over 20 years I believe.  To be honest, I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it myself before now.  Check it out.

http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/G3%20HFN%20Essex_Echo_(cables_1985).pdf

If you get the "gist" of it, you'll realize that wires are nothing more than...uh, oh...here it comes...WAVEGUIDES!  I've always known that, but "orthodox" theory teaches us that at audio wavelengths, waveguide propagation doesn't come into play in cables of dimensions commonly used in audio.  But waveguide theory is THE ticket in explaining all of these obscure issues.  And gee, we know a little about those things here at SP Tech.  From top (our tweeter) to bottom (our Revelation bass loading)...
 our designs have been based on waveguide theory from day-1!

Hey, maybe there is something to this waveguide stuff after all. :roll:  The fact is, EVERY form of signal transmission takes place by the principles of waveguide physics.  If a designer attempts to ignore it, the design will suffer.  Sorry, I didn't create the laws of physics, I just try to obey them.

Once I finally got my head out of my butt and decided to look more deeply, the science was there all along to explain all these heretofore "tweak-o" issues.  They are (sorry doubters) all real and come into play to some degree in every branch of physics - not just audio.

What is both totally surprising to me and as far as I'm concerned, a "feather in my cap," is that what I predicted below falls EXACTLY in line with Hawksford's paper/theory.  Unbeknownst to me, I had "theorized" virtually everything that Hawksford is discussing all before I ever became aware of his paper.  I just discovered this paper on the web 2 days ago and I am still in awe.  He even goes on to "predict" vortices or "whirlpools" of current forming in the conductor. 

I take it a step further and say that, due to the "curl" of electrons traveling through the magnetic field within the cables (commonly known to take place in free space), that these currents form spiral paths back and forth down the length of a conductor.  These spiral paths look like sine waves when viewed orthogonally and constitute the "standing waves" or resonances that I have discussed/predicted.  These resonances decay in magnitude and time exponentially, just like the reverberation in a room decays after you slap your hands  Hawksford goes on to even use this same analogy!  Man am I smart! :wink:  Well, I may not have been "original," but at least I didn't know I wasn't.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=39346.0

Check it out, see what I wrote and compare it to Hawksford.  In private e-mails to some of you I had elaborated further and hence, more finely developed my theory than what I posted in the link above.  Those of you that received those e-mails know this to be true.

Man...I don't mean to be arrogant but...it sure feels good to have been correct.  FINALLY, I have a "theory of everything" audio.  I may be delusional but at least it's nice to have company smarter than I am! :dance:

Oh...and for you guys getting my cables...you can breathe a little easier now. :green:

-Bob

PS.  So why am I not rich yet? :scratch:


……“ Gordon Gow, President of McIntosh Laboratory, used a speaker cable demonstration to show there was no listening difference between these wires and plain line cord. He delivered his presentation about the truth in speaker wire using a reel of Monster cable to stand on. Fifty-foot lengths of wire were used in the comparison. The setup consisted of a master control relay box and two slave relay boxes. A three-position switch was used to select one of three different speaker wires of equal length. One was line cord. The other two wires were from popular manufacturers. 8-ohm speakers were selected to be used in the test. The two other brand name wires were heavier than the line cord.
The boxes now show some signs of wear. This is from being handled and traveling around in a large fiberglass case along with all of the speaker wires and connecting cables.

A slave box was positioned at each speaker. Power to drive the relays in each slave box was provided with separate cables. The speaker wires were switched at both the power amplifier and the speaker so that only one kind of wire was connected at a time. Short pieces of heavy wire were run from the speakers and amplifier to the relay boxes. No other devices were used in the speaker line. The relay contact resistance was measured to be less than 0.1 ohms. No consistent listening differences were heard by customers or dealers.
The test proved his point. When I took the test, I was unable to hear any differences using several different 8-ohm speaker systems. BUT, when I deliberately played one particular 4-ohm speaker and I switched to the line cord position, I could hear differences. I knew this system dipped down to 2.6 ohms in one frequency range, and 3 ohms in another. It verified that differences can be heard if the wire is too light for a lower impedance system. A system this low in impedance requires heavier wire. After replacing the line cord with a heavier line cord of equal length, differences could no longer be heard.
THE KIND OF WIRE MADE NO DIFFERENCE
It can be solid, stranded, copper, oxygen free copper, silver, etc.--or even "magic" wire--as long as the resistance is kept to be less than 5% of the speaker impedance. There is no listening difference as long as the wire is of adequate size……..”
Source:  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm




Russell Dawkins

Re: So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same? Yes
« Reply #43 on: 11 Aug 2007, 07:32 am »
……“ Gordon Gow, President of McIntosh Laboratory, used a speaker cable demonstration to show there was no listening difference between these wires and plain line cord.

Bet he wasn't using SP Tech speakers for the comparison!

Many speakers are too unrevealing to make subtle differences audible.

For me this is precisely the value of Bob's speakers and why they are worth what they cost.

Double Ugly

Re: So You Think All Cables Are Pretty Much The Same?
« Reply #44 on: 11 Aug 2007, 12:30 pm »
Summer, please ... if you insist on crapping on threads, do it somewhere other than in a manufacturer's circle.  It's disrespectful at best, and it's a sure-fire way to make an unfavorable first impression.

Further, many of us here have personally heard differences in speaker cables, including your's truly.  I replaced my speaker cables a while back with some that performed much better, and at less than half the price.  Though it's a personal recent experience, it is to say that most here aren't driven by price, but by performance. 

If you aren't able to hear differences in cables, I suggest replacing your current speakers with a pair from SP Technology.  As Russell suggested above, you'll have no problem hearing differences then, assuming no hearing damage, of course.

DU