[shep]

I just adore my little Dutch TL's and would like some feed-back from others concerning room placement experience, wires and eventually any tips that I haven't heard of or thought of  aa. Even with the "wrong" amplification, mine really sing. I'm sure when they get the new T-amp, with lots more power, they will take off. I can rake them back, and do, as far as they will go. Is there an ideal angle for this? I somewhere read 8° was ideal but damned if I know how to measure this! (giant protractor!)

[JLM]

One of the two ephiphanies I've had in my audio life is the superiority of transmission line designs.  (The other is active versus typical passive loudspeaker design.) 

When I first decided to get seriously into audio in the 70s, I visited a local audio shop where the salesmen all worked on salary and could sell what they wanted (it was part of a large music store).  I thouight I wanted something like behemoth JBL L300s, and the salemen obliged by allowing me to listen to them.  They had the big impressive "hi-fi" sound I thought I wanted.  Then he switched over to a compariably priced I. M. Fried Model H (two small sealed standmounts with the "coffin" - a stereo transmission line woofer cabinet).  Even with the standmounts placed on shelves I couldn't locate which set of speakers were playing or resolve in my head where all that deep bass came from.  But it was the sound: natural, deep, musical, tight, fast, and balanced that really set my head spinning.  I left the store perplexed, with the sound haunting me until I bought the little standmounts and finally built the separate woofer cabinet version of the "coffin" (which Bud Fried preferred to call "coffee table" shaped).

So I've owned transmission lines (or what Bud called line tunnels, a cross between TL and bass reflex in somewhat smaller cabinets) ever since.  With Martin J. King's recent development of a MathCad application, TLs can finally be mathematically modeled.  Until then design was done by trial and error helped by experience.  My current speakers reflect both my ephiphanies thanks to MJK, Bob Brines, and the mighty Fostex F200 full range driver. 

TLs have a 6 dB/octave bass roll off and so compliment room gain.  This makes them more (less sensitive) flexible in achieving suitable room placement.  Obviously imaging, soundstaging, cabling, or rake considerations are no different than other dynamic (discrete driver) based designs.  Not sure where you "found out about an 8 degree rake, but it is equivalent to a 14 cm tilt for every meter of height.  Ideal rake is typically defined as keeping the centers of all drivers per speker in a vertical line/plane, and so differs with each speaker.  Note that this takes care of horizontal imaging/soundscape, but can't help in the vertical axis.

TLs are also amplifier "friendlier" than any other design as the bass impedance curve (at the driver's F3) is lowered and drawn into lower frequencies.  (I'm sure others can speak to the exact theory much better.)  Even though my current speakers are rated at 89 dB/w/m I was driving them with good result with a 8 wpc digital amp.  However as you elluded to, they now benefit from bigger amps.

[bpape]

That coffin sub is something special for sure.  I built one a long time ago from plans still available on the internet I believe. 

Bryan

[Dan Banquer]

I have had my Fried G3A's for about 4 or 5 years now, and JLM pretty much said everything I have observed from these speakers. The only speaker that I have heard recently that I would consider are the Fried Reference speakers, but they are so expensive, and a bit big for the room I presently use.
               d.b.

[shep]

I suppose this rake thing is the equivalent to a primative "time allignment"? I've never tried them bolt up-right (partly because they look so nice, leaning backwards!) Mine have tiny drivers and a huge sound! I still can't get used to that...they are "true" TL's and the port fires downwards. I cannot quite yet "get" how far off the rar wall they should be. This has of course to do with the room a bit and the listening position. Presently I'm about 2 feet out into the room.

[Dan Driscoll]

I have a pair of Bud Fried Betas, they are some of the finest bookshelf speakers I have ever heard.

[JLM]

bpape,

Fried had rated the Model M woofer cabinets (that I built) to 114 dB at 17 Hz.  They were too much for any sized room I could ever afford.  One trial in a 20,000 cu. ft. chapel at my church with a NAD 3020 convinced me that they belonged there and I donated them on the spot.  Don't know if that was a smart thing to do or not.

Dan,

Bud's best standmounts IMO were the C5 (2-way truncated pyramids with 6.5 inch woofer in a 3 fold TL).  A step up from my upgraded Model Bs all the way around.  The depth of bass was two steps up and had to be heard to believe for the size of the cabinet (not much bigger than the Beta/B).

shep,

Best to simply adjust to suit your taste.  It'll probably be a depth of soundstage versus bass output tradeoff sort of decision for you to make.  Now that design software exists hopefully more TLs will start showing up.

[TheChairGuy]

Are TL's particularly finicky about room size/shape, etc. I know, from planar to ported...they are all room respondent, but are TL's somehow particulary finicky?

I had a Vandersteen 1C that I never could get to sound right here...when I sold them to a local, I set them up and hard them in all their glory for the first time in his much larger space with books/bookshelves all around.  If they sounded anything like that here, I'd have never gotten rid of them.

I think it's Vandersteen's only transmisison line ...http://vandersteen.com/pages/1clit.html

[shep]

I don't think that's a true Transmission Line? Actually mine arn't that finicky. I am loosing out on side wall reflections by having them on a LONG wall but the other way round is totally useless in my room. They seem to excite virtually no nodes (that could be my imagination) but it is true that back wall distance is critical. Too close and the sound stage collapses. Too far out and they loose bass and become too etherial. Regarding rake, the maker suggests "experimenting", which is a cop-out! since there is probably 10° of play possible, that's a lot of experimenting.
http://www.crafty.nl/producten/pr_luid_azumi.php    might as well see what I'm talking about!

[toxteth ogrady]

I think it's Vandersteen's only transmisison line ...http://vandersteen.com/pages/1clit.html

I always wondered what the "C" in 1c stood for.

[TheChairGuy]

There was the original 1, then a 'b' version. The 'c' is just the latest in the evolution of that model I believe.