[Housteau]

The journey has begun.  I will continue to add to this thread as I learn more over time.  My actual first impressions are somewhat limited, as my time with the V60s has been limited.  So, I thought it best to make the bulk of this first post full of more background material to better set the stage.  So before I begin I will describe my listening environment and associated gear. 

My room is a dedicated listening space with good acoustic dimensions.  They are 15' x 21.5' with a 12' cathedral peak.  As John Casler mentioned previously in Paul's thread, I have had a history of issues with that cathedral ceiling.  Those problems came in the form of strange beaming effects messing up the focus.  This past year I have done my homework, designed and installed quite a bit of acoustic controls that have eliminated that  problem entirely.  All corners have been treated for either bass and/or reflections as these following photos show.
   
I have run dipoles these passed 17 years, either the complete Infinity RS1b system, or this Infinity / Martin Logan hybrid, and so I am quite used to their nature, as well as wants and desires in a room.

I use an older set (everything I have is older) of VTL Deluxe 100 Monos.  These are EL34 tube amps and only about 15 pair were ever made.  Mine have been modified to make the manual bias adjustments easier.  There have been some cap changes and removals as well.  There is something special about older tube amplifiers.  I think it must be the age of the transformers that after 20 - 25 year they start to come into their own.  I also think that must be why such old Dynaco gear can often sound very good.  My other amp in the venerable John Iverson's Electron Kinetics Eagle 2a.  This one still has a cult following after all these years.  At one time it was J. Gorden Holt's reference amp, but I have always found it's best attribute was deep bass duty, especially combined with the servo bass system of the RS1b.  It had a way of really locking on to those cones with an iron fist.

My preamp is the simple Audio Research SP-9.  I have had two and they sounded distinctly different from each other.  I had sent a silver face plated one back to the factory and it was given a clean bill of health, but sounded just horrible.  On the other hand my black face plated one has always sounded really good.  So, I sold the silver and kept the black and have been happy ever since.  Sometime you just accept what is and be thankful .  I think it has a fine phono stage as well.

That brings us to sources.  I have an older (see, I told you everything was older) Oracle of Delphi / SME combo that has served me well.  My CD players include the original Musical Fidelity X-Ray, which I think will make a great transport for a future outboard converter one day.  But, my main player is the simple unmodified Jolida tubed unit.  It sounded absolutely horrible right out of the box.  However, after about 150 hours and a tube change away from those cold Russians made all the positive changes in the world.

Now on to the meat and bones.

One spends a lot of time gathering up components that work well together.  A big concern of mine was that by going to different speakers I would loose that synergy I had worked years to achieve.  I had friend warn me that I would now have to start all over again.  Well, it ain't so,  The first thing I noticed with the V60s is that they sounded very good immediately, and that would not have happened if the chain before them had a weak, or incompatible link in there somewhere.  Also, my previous speakers were very fussy in positioning.  A few inches here or there and that magic something was gone, be it focus, soundstage depth, but something would not be right.  These V60s were happy right away.  Yes they sound better in specific places, but I did not loose anything significant by not having them in their ideal location.  I am not even sure if they are in their ideal location now and the point is that it doesn't seem to matter that much anyway.  This is a big deal.

I am only using a loaner modified Larger sub to VSS specs.  It has not found its ideal location yet either.  The bass curve is not nearly as flat as my Infinity bass towers had in their location, but once again that doesn't seem to matter. The quality and quantity of  bass I am getting from this modified Larger pretending to be a real VSS is so good, that it has me rethinking the need for twin VLAs.  I can see that this bass area is where I will be spending most of my time tweaking.

I am triamping using both versions of that bridging circuit I built from Jim's instructions.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38538.0 It works and it works well.  I have the VTLs on top, the Eagle in the middle and that Dayton plate amp on the VSS.  The V60's treble L-pad is wide open and the midrange is almost wide open.  I kept the same factory pretuning relationship.  The pot on the Eagle bridging cables allows me to strike that proper balance down to 70 Hz.

My first impressions of the sound is one of disbelief on how well everything sounds and works together.  The vocals are most striking in their immediacy and presence.  I should let you know my speaker placements and how I have the dipole nature set.  They have a slight toe in and the closest back part of the wing is 43" off the long wall, placing the ribbons about 57" out into the room.  I have only started playing with the rear damper and now have it completely removed.  I am using my tall artificial plants for diffusion which is working very well.  I also have an extra set of 4 12"tube traps that I  may stack behind them to serve the same function as the damper, just further away.

I'll get more in depth later on.  Right now I have so much to do .

[Housteau]

I wanted to add that my old favorite music has become new and very exciting all over again, and new music is a pure adventure.  I would have thought that a speaker as coherent from top to bottom and revealing as this one is would be more ruthlessly critical of less than optimum recordings.  But, I haven't yet found this to be true.  Maybe it is the purity of the reproduction that allows them to be heard properly for the first time?

[Early B.]

This is exciting. Keep it coming!!

[John Casler]

This is exciting. Keep it coming!!

I have to agree.

Dave is a true Audiophile, and has sought out and perfected his sonic preferences over the years.

For him to be "starting" his VMPS journey at this level is remarkable.

I have been informed that there are many owners of the IRS, RSb1, and other incarnations of the older Infinity Systems who are watching to see how it goes with those who have converted to the RM v60's and more yet, the InVictus V3 Super System

I doubt the true potential of this system will be known for a while until we get more and more in the field, and they are set up in different rooms and system.

It seems the V60 owners are already exchanging tips and ideas. 

This is gonna be fun to watch

[dubravko]

I would have thought that a speaker as coherent from top to bottom and revealing as this one is would be more ruthlessly critical of less than optimum recordings.  But, I haven't yet found this to be true.  Maybe it is the purity of the reproduction that allows them to be heard properly for the first time?

That is what I think is true too. Every time I really advanced my system, or heard something really good elsewhere, I found more and more recordings enjoyable. For some of them I thought are unlistenable before. Now I'm much more careful before I name a recording as bad.

[Housteau]

Now I'm much more careful before I name a recording as bad.

Yes.  It almost wants me to take back some of the things I have said about mastering engineers.

Brian has added 1" thick foam 4" wide on the inside of the wings closest to the drivers running top to bottom.  I think this has allowed me to run with minimal extra damping with really good results.  Those foam strips appear to be enough to prevent that rear horn effect in my room. 

An audiophile friend who has always called a spade a spade in my room, spend several hours listening yesterday with familiar material.  He said what struck him repeatedly was the seamless nature and coherency of the sound as if it was coming from a single ideal transducer.  I have to agree.  He gave me a very strong compliment in that it was not only the best sound he had heard in my room, it was the best sound he had ever heard in any room.  It is good to have some reinforcement of opinion, because in the excitement of having something new, it is often very easy to strongly and possibly falsely try to justify the purchase by hearing what you want to hear.



             

[John Casler]

Well if "V"isual impressions mean anything, they sure look stunning in your space.

 

Regarding the cuts that now "sound good"; I have to say that many times I too have damned the recording engineer unjustly, only to find that a system improvement made the negative sonic melt away.

[Brian Cheney]

The 1"D x4"W full length foam strip at the apex of the "V" does kill the earliest reflections and increases the clarity of the system even without the damper. Perhaps you can post a picture of your system from inside the "V".

If you remove the adjustable damper you should try listening behind the V as well for the full open horn effect.  It reminds me why many people like horn loading so much.

The combination of wide, uniform front dispersion and rear horn loading is an amazing sound not obtainable any other way.

[Housteau]

Here are the 1" x 4" foam strips. 

             

[Housteau]

 

[Housteau]

I have finally found a known very bad recording (Vapor Trails) that sounds worse on the V60s.  I was starting to get concerned that they may have been too good to be true.  Since everything was sounding so good, I was thinking that possibly they, or with the combination of my components were being too euphoric.  But, now that the bad has been made worse I know better.





You can see by these graphs that the evil mastering engineer had compressed the top recording so much that just about all peaks have been completely chopped off.  They are almost square waves.  Below that one shows a progression of previous releases that show true fidelity on the bottom, building up to a nearly acceptable compromise in Counterparts.   

[Brian Cheney]

Thanks for the excellent pix.

There is a whole world of bad recordings out there for you to discover, so don't give up easily!

[PLMONROE]

There is something about these speakers that I have not been able to put my finger on that has been bugging the heck out of me the whole past week. Some time ago I purchased a complete set of Haydn's Symphonies and I have been working through them one or two each night. Last night while listening to one the light bulb finally illuminated for me. If you are looking for good sounding speakers forget about these, go buy some  RM-40s or RM-30s, which are truly good speakers. By no stretch of the imagination are the V60s good sounding speakers.  They don't "sound" at all. I get sick of the often stated, worn out expression "my new speakers just disappear into my room". These speakers do not do that for they were never there from the very beginning, they were invisible from the start. Brian has miraculously created an optical illusion posing as a pair of speakers. You don't have speakers you have a sound field 180 degrees wide that extends beyond the rooms lateral, vertical, and horizontal boundaries. Is it perfect? No (sorry Brian) but I have never heard an artificial sound source that was so close to the original. I am positive the VLAs will make it even more so for what little is lacking seems to mainly be in the bass. Nirvana here we come! 

[Housteau]

I just may have found my place in heaven right next to Paul.  And to think there were some that doubted I would get there, considering some of my other interests such as shown in my avitar  aa.

[zybar]

I have finally found a known very bad recording (Vapor Trails) that sounds worse on the V60s.  I was starting to get concerned that they may have been too good to be true.  Since everything was sounding so good, I was thinking that possibly they, or with the combination of my components were being too euphoric.  But, now that the bad has been made worse I know better.





You can see by these graphs that the evil mastering engineer had compressed the top recording so much that just about all peaks have been completely chopped off.  They are almost square waves.  Below that one shows a progression of previous releases that show true fidelity on the bottom, building up to a nearly acceptable compromise in Counterparts.   

Good thing Vapor Trails doesn't rank up there with Rush's best work.   

Go enjoy some of Rush's earlier works like "2112", "Hemispheres", "Moving Pictures", etc...

George

George

[Housteau]

Good thing Vapor Trails doesn't rank up there with Rush's best work.   

Agreed.  2112 was actually my first Rush concert.  However, I still don't understand how a band known for their professional and technical excellence could allow such a thing to happen.  I would think that they have enough stature to influence their final product.  Geddy's solo release just before VT is very well done.  Their new recording is due out May 1st.  So, I guess we will see if this was a fluke, or a new trend.

[PLMONROE]

I just may have found my place in heaven right next to Paul.

Brian, I just spent all afternoon sitting in front of these speakers in a state of bliss. For my part, and I think I can also speak for Dave, you just gotta' do something. We have really gotten to like it up here. But if you keep taking orders for those darn V60s this place will soon be so crowded that we won't have room to flex our wings, let alone fly any distance without running into some idiot who didn't pause for a Celestial Stop Light! 

Paul

[John Casler]

The symptoms sound suspiciously like "acute" RM v60 addiction

The only cure, is sonic gorging aa

Listen until you can listen no more

Listen until your ears fall off, you turn green and you look like this .

But listen and listen, and listen, to everything in your CD and Vinyl Collection.  It is the only hope for cure.

(but side effects may include drowsiness, dreamlike states, sonic stupor, eyes wide shut, and ears closed open, pleasant feelings between your ears, and uncontrollable urge to not move until a cd has played all the way through)

Other symptoms may include "pinna engorgement"!!! if this condition persists for more than 24 hours, do not stop playing your system or sonic dehydration/deprivation could result.

If this condition lasts more than 36 hours call the VMPS hotline for further instructions and a prescribed list of Reference Recordings that may help improve your level of ear-rational psycoacoustical abberant sensations.

Jerry Lewis, Gary Lewis, and Huey Lewis have contacted us about a RM v60 addiction Telethon to raise money for those who can't afford their own pair of RM v60's

In the worst cases this condition may lead to St InVictus Dance, which is an uncontrollable urge to dance, play air guitar and sometimes leads to air drums.

It starts with simple body twitches like hand movements and toe tapping and the next thing you know, your whole body is writhing and convulsing in uncontrollable rythmic gyrations.

As pleasant as this condition feels, one must be carefull of keeping furniture, pets, and other things that may get in the way of flailing bodyparts.

There have even been extreme cases of persons with various size sticks in their right hands performing incredible conducting motions to large orchestral movements.

warning: the 1812 overture can be fatal

Yes, RM v60 addiction is a strange, powerful, and wonderful affliction.  Todate little is known of its "LONG TERM" effects.

We are currently conducting research studies to determine the effects of the production of huge amounts of dopamine and endorphin release from specific lyrics and tonal cues.

Please join us in this quest.  You'll be glad you did....

Film at Eleven, and now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Please purchase and use these speakers at your own risk

Not responsible for extreme cases of "smiley face" disease either aa (in any of its forms  )

I want a new drug
One that wont make me sick
One that wont make me crash my car
Or make me feel three feet thick

I want a new drug
One that wont hurt my head
One that wont make my mouth too dry
Or make my eyes too red

One that wont make me nervous
Wondering what to do
One that makes me feel like I feel when Im with you
When Im alone with you

[PLMONROE]

John you are absolutely toooooooomuch! 

[John Casler]

John you are absolutely toooooooomuch! 

Paul,

I'm afraid I have bad/good news.

From the looks of the above post, you have Chronic Conductoritis, of which there is no known cure, only treatment.

The good news is your speaker set "IS" the treatment. (as well as the cause )

Swing that baton big fella

Looks like a 2/2 time signature.

Don't forget a few "Pianisimo's" with you "Fortissimo's"