$10,000 Recommendations ??????????

randytsuch · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 02:05 am »

Quote from: bpape on 12 Apr 2007, 01:31 am

That's why I'd say Outlaw right now - HDMI 1.3 is still up in the air no matter what the ad blurbs say. It will be end of the year at the earliest before anything is really finalized. That's why I'd not spend a ton right now. Plus, IMO, keeping video separate from audio is a big bennie in terms of pure performance.

Bryan

I was not recommending HDMI 1.3. Seems like either 1.2 or 1.1 will be fine.
I would make sure it supports HDCP, or a new TV make not like the signal, but I think all the newer receivers will support HDCP.
Here is the "Why you don't need HDMI 1.3" thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

I am sure the outlaw sounds good, but it seems to be dated technology now. Outlaw does not have the R&D budget to keep it's stuff up to date, like the Denon's, Yamaha's and Onkyo's do.

Randy

samplesj · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 02:37 am »

Quote from: randytsuch on 12 Apr 2007, 02:05 am

Quote from: bpape on 12 Apr 2007, 01:31 am
That's why I'd say Outlaw right now - HDMI 1.3 is still up in the air no matter what the ad blurbs say. It will be end of the year at the earliest before anything is really finalized. That's why I'd not spend a ton right now. Plus, IMO, keeping video separate from audio is a big bennie in terms of pure performance.

Bryan

I was not recommending HDMI 1.3. Seems like either 1.2 or 1.1 will be fine.
...
I am sure the outlaw sounds good, but it seems to be dated technology now. Outlaw does not have the R&D budget to keep it's stuff up to date, like the Denon's, Yamaha's and Onkyo's do.

HDMI 1.3 is noise. However like Randy is saying you REALLY want 1.1/1.2 in your pre-pro / reciever. As he said with 1.1/1.2 you can get the full 7.1 uncompressed audio feeds from HD sources in a digital format. Then you get to apply all of your bass managment directly instead of going through an ADC stage.

Think of 1.1/1.2 as firewire/dennon link for hd video sources. You get all the info with no downsampling, bass managment without ADC and you get to use the better DAC in the pre-pro/receiver. 1.1/1.2 let you buy your hd sources with regard to transport quality instead of transport + dac quality.

In the end though I think you'll spend more and/or be less happy with a dual purpose system vs 2 distinct systems. I've been there already.....

bpape · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 02:56 am »

Right now you can - but 1.3 is where you'll be able to get DIGITAL HD video similar to SDI

Remember people said DVI was all you needed too - look where that left a bunch of people

Bryan

stearnsn · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 04:22 am »

A lot of ways to skin the cat.

This system would serve both HT and two channel for $9,300. If you go HT only you can get rid of the Odyssey pieces and some cables saving about $3000 and staying far enough under your budget to get a nice tv.

Boston Acoustic AVR-7120 --about $900 used
Dinan DVD-3910 --about $550 used
NHT Classic 4 & 3's --$2200 for five speakers http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1181242150
Odyssey Candela pre-amp for two channel listening --$1300 new
Odyssey Stratos mono-blocks for two channel --$1300 used
Audience AU24 interconnects --2 pair at $275 per pair used-- $550
Cables for the HT (blue jeans?, Alpha Core?, or?)
Audience speaker wires--one pair for $500
Other speaker wires--$300
Audience Powercords--6 at $200 each used or $1200
Dedicated power circuits and plugs- $400

randytsuch · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 05:04 am »

Quote from: bpape on 12 Apr 2007, 02:56 am

Right now you can - but 1.3 is where you'll be able to get DIGITAL HD video similar to SDI

Remember people said DVI was all you needed too - look where that left a bunch of people

Bryan

Hi Bryan,
Not sure what you are talking about

Are you referring to "deep color"?

And for anyone interested, here is a link that describes the differences in 1.3
http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp#hdmi_1.3

Randy

bpape · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 10:30 am »

The 2 biggest things are the deep color and the lip sync adjustment. When using a scaler lip sync can be a real issue. Lastly, they also still have to work out the communications issues so that everything doesn't default to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, it's already a digital transmission. Head was firmly inserted where the sun wasn't shining...

Bryan

griller · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 01:21 pm »

After much research I ordered ACI's $2000 Emerald-Force 5.1 system. I've only had it for about a week but I will say I am simply blown away with the overall quality and the sound of this system. The little Emerald XLs are extremely musical. I intend to do a more thorough review when I've had them for a bit. But I will say I think you owe it to yourself to investigate ACI speakers.

randytsuch · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 12 Apr 2007, 10:30 am

The 2 biggest things are the deep color and the lip sync adjustment. When using a scaler lip sync can be a real issue. Lastly, they also still have to work out the communications issues so that everything doesn't default to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, it's already a digital transmission. Head was firmly inserted where the sun wasn't shining...

Bryan

So for me, HDMI 1.3 is no big deal. The new XBR2 LCD I am getting is supposed to have lip sync adjustment, and since AFAIK, there are no deep color sources, I am not going to sweat about that feature.

But, everyone has different requirements. That was kind of the point of my original post, I wanted to point out options to dsmith.

The Outlaws are supposed to sound very nice for the money (have not heard myself), but to me, they have some dated technology. If you don't care about HDMI audio, and uncompressed PCM for movies, then I think this will serve you well.

The newer receivers from Denon and others are more future proof, especially if you get a "level 6" one, but of course, next year there will be a newer better one. Question is, will the new features be something you really need.

Another option is to wait for HDMI 1.3. Since HDMI 1.3 doesn't do anything I really need, I don't need to wait.

Randy

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 04:39 am »

Bump....

John Casler · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 05:28 am »

Quote from: dsmith5740 on 17 Nov 2007, 04:39 am

Bump....

Looks like you are still looking. If you don't mind a PM, I have a complete package that is too low to post. aa

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 02:25 pm »

???....."too low to post"....????

My experience is if it's too good to be true.........it's too good to be true.

ctviggen · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 08:05 pm »

He said it was too low to post, not that it was too good to be true. Many of these dealers can't advertise prices below a certain amount, although they can give you a price below that amount. And, if John says it's a good deal, it's a good deal. It may not be the deal you're looking for, but you'd be a fool not to discuss the deal with him.

samplesj · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Nov 2007, 10:31 pm »

Of course this isn't industry ads/industry talk. This is a user forum and he asked for recommendations from the group not a sales pitch.

At least the OP didn't get a PM directly this time.

dsmith5740 · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 04:47 am »

Here's the sad part....I still haven't gotten any recommendations related to my original question.

JLM · « **Reply #34 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 01:12 pm »

Spending $10,000 on HT with teenagers around can't be done "wisely".

We're back up to 3 teens in the house (the last of 5 just turned 13).

Get a "plenty good" system for now and bank the rest until they leave. The screens will get better/cheaper, maybe the HDDVD/BluRay war will be resolved, and hopefully your investment rate of return will exceed the inflation rate.

With a wide viewing angle you'll need a flat panel. Look for a receiver with HDMI connections (I'm not picky about HT receivers but HK or Denon are good). Try Ascend Acoustics CMB-170SE speakers: good sound; great content value; crummy cosmetics (but you're looking at the screen in the dark, right?); and you can give them to the kids when you upgrade. I've used the older CMB-170 for years and love them, but they do look like they belong in a dorm or kids first apartment.

HT is a low priority for me, but this is about what I did (on a $3000 budget), but didn't get HDMI, went with a rear projection LCD, and haven't gone with HDDVD or BluRay yet.

Woodsea · « **Reply #35 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 01:37 pm »

I agree with JLM. Spring for a Nintendo Wii and either of the M$ or $ony consoles. Then buy some games, because that is where your money will go.
Get Rock Band and other multiplayer games. For your viewing pleasure get the biggest Plasma 1080 native as will fit in your budget. Throw in some bass shakers and along with the pair of subs you are set.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #36 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 04:01 pm »

If you want wide dispersion, something relatively tough that will satisfy for years after the kids are gone, I recommend considering the SP Technology Timepiece Minis.

I own their big brothers, and I think they'll satisfy your needs and then some.

Combine them with a single Infra-Wave sub and you'll have an amazingly clear and open system, from the highest highs to the foundation cracking bass that is as articulate as it is deep. A search of this forum will produce several posts wherein folks reference the sound of SP Tech's T-line bass as the best they've ever heard.

I am among them.

Retail for all this will account for a little over half of your budget, but I'm sure Bob will work something out if you order a full 4.1 system. His speakers are such that I'm not convinced a center channel is entirely necessary, but that would be something for you and he to discuss.

Personally, I'd put more money into the sound part of the system rather than the video. There are a *LOT* of good, large-sized HD options available at comparitively low prices that are sure to satisfy. By the time the kids leave home, it'll be time to replace the plasma anyway (lifespan is very disappointing IMHO). Hopefully by then, things will have settled down both in terms of HD format and display longevity.

In fact, maybe an even better, even higher resolution option that'll last long enough to feel like you've gotten your money's worth will have arrived... who knows?

Anyway, that's my hack at answering your question, and is precisely what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

JohninCR · « **Reply #37 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 04:03 pm »

For a wide seating area the only best answer is a pair of line arrays as your mains. As long as you don't have to stick them all the way in the corners, you can run a phantom center and don't need a center channel speaker. Since it's HT, clear dialogue is of extreme importance, and OB's deliver that best, no more of that "What did he say?". Unfortunately OB line array selection is almost nil, but a pair of OB/LA's and smaller matching surrounds, plus a good quality HT receiver can come in far enough below $10K to get a great projector and electric screen too.

Woodsea · « **Reply #38 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 05:23 pm »

The SP is overkill, because once the kids are gone they will be relics compared to what will be available from SP.
Norh is fine, but I bought Ascends after listening to the 4.0 and 6.1.
You can get the Ascends (Their dispersal is phenomenal) and put a pair of SP in your bedroom to get into the mood, they are gorgeous, though I have not had the privilege to hear them.
Never go without a center channel

And make it a big one! If you get the 60 incher that Marbles alluded to, it won't look that large and obtrusive.

JohninCR · « **Reply #39 on:** 18 Nov 2007, 06:29 pm »

Quote from: Woodsea on 18 Nov 2007, 05:23 pm

Never go without a center channel And make it a big one! If you get the 60 incher that Marbles alluded to, it won't look that large and obtrusive.

Unlike puny point source mains and their tiny prime listening area, arrays have no need for a center. For that matter a TV isn't HT either, just a big TV.