Moscode vs. AVA power amps

spectralman · « **on:** 5 Apr 2007, 07:22 am »

I am pretty close to sending off a check for a for a home demo of the Moscode 401HR. Before I do, I wanted to ask you guys if any of you have had any experience with comparing the 401HR to the latest AVA Fet Valve 550 Ultra. Speakers being driven are Reimer Tetons, preamp is a Tom Evans Vibe, CDP is VSE-modded Sony 777ES. The AVA is sure a lot less money, just wondering if it is as "good" as the Moscode. Yeah, who knows just how it would all shake out in my system... That being said, any and all comments would be appreciated.

Bill

opnly bafld · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 12:54 pm »

Are your speakers 8 or 4 ohm?
I did not see any indication on their website.

Lin

TomS · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 04:37 pm »

Bill,

Glad you're still enjoying the Reimers. Two great amp choices, but I wouldn't think you'd need nearly the horsepower given how efficient they are (95db+). The Moscode is very nicely set up for tube rolling if that's your thing. Neither of those amps comes up for resale very often for very good reason. Have you considered any others, perhaps not quite so beefy?

Tom

WEEZ · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 05:10 pm »

I agree w/TomS here. How big is your room?

WEEZ

spectralman · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 05:58 pm »

In answer to the above questions, the Tetons are 4 ohm speakers. My listening room is 13' wide x 21' long (speakers along the short wall) with a large archway behind the listening position that goes to the dining room, 13' wide x 11' deep. I agree that under normal listening conditions, I would never use the power put out by either of these amps. But, like a lot of you, I get the urge to let loose once in a while with some Yello or Kraftwerk. Also, I don't like to have to push the amp; I would rather have it coasting along so that it has plenty in reserve for whatever dynamic peaks come along. BTW, I listen to just about anything, but most of it is classical, jazz, and bluegrass.

Bill

TomS · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 06:01 pm »

In the spirit of "the first watt" I had actually thought about trying the Nelson Pass designed First Watt "Aleph J" when I had them. I bet it would sound great.

WEEZ · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 06:57 pm »

I heard both amps at RMAF. (different rooms and different speakers, of course). I can't imagine being disappointed with either one. My choice would probably favor the AVA as it has a bit less gain. With high sensitivity speakers like yours, that would be a factor for me (it may not be for you). The fact that it costs less is a bonus. It will also drive 2 ohms. I would talk to Frank and George by phone and hear them out.

Nice pre-amp, btw.

WEEZ

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ on 5 Apr 2007, 06:57 pm

I heard both amps at RMAF. (different rooms and different speakers, of course). I can't imagine being disappointed with either one. My choice would probably favor the AVA as it has a bit less gain. With high sensitivity speakers like yours, that would be a factor for me (it may not be for you). The fact that it costs less is a bonus. It will also drive 2 ohms. I would talk to Frank and George by phone and hear them out.

Nice pre-amp, btw.

WEEZ

As always, careful system matching is necessary.

The higher gain is a blessing for me in my configuration.

The other vendor that gets thrown into this discussion is Blue Circle.

Bill, based on the things you liked and disliked on the DNA-500, I think you would very much enjoy the Moscode. To hear it at it's full potential, you will want to do some tube rolling and change out the stock power cord. As I have never owned the AVA amp, I can't say how much tubes and power cord can change its sound.

Best of luck.

If a comparison is done, please keep everybody posted.

George

WEEZ · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Apr 2007, 08:14 pm »

(no power cord swapping with AVA)

Another hybrid option is Butler.

WEEZ

spectralman · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 05:07 am »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the replies thus far. If anyone else wants to chime in, please feel free.

Bill

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 05:25 am »

Hello Bill....
Some past posts.....

Quote

I am kind of a detail freak, so I don't want an overly warm-sounding amp.

Quote

I'm selling my AVA Fet Valve 550EXR power amp......For me, the sound is a little too soft.

Would these posts still apply today ? (they were from 2004)

Chris

PS....Thats an interesting preamp......

opnly bafld · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 01:38 pm »

With large 4ohm speakers I would highly recommend trying Monarchy Audio SE250 Monoblocks @ $2500.
They are Tube/Mosfet hybrids biased class A to 50w, 250w into 8 and 500w into 4ohms.
IMO very sweet sounding amps.

Lin

TONEPUB · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 04:03 pm »

Though I have had no experience with AVA stuff, I have heard the Moscode
and it is a great amp!

As for the power, I say power is your friend. (No disrespect to Nelson Pass
as I own an F3 too and its great!)

My good friend Steve Hoffman, the legendary mastering engineer has always
been a fan of small amplifiers, but he spent a few days at my house last week
and we listened to records (Mostly his...) till the wee hours of the morning.

He said that the dynamics from having the extra power on tap made the musical
experience a lot more real for him.

I have three systems: One low power (Sometimes SET and sometimes First Watt F3),
one medium power (sometimes Nagra PSA and sometimes MC275) and my reference
system has a CJ premier 350 and I have to admit I've gotten pretty hooked
on having the extra power on tap.

I get the feeling you will too, even if you don't spend all that much time really
winding it out.

If you go down the Moscode path, let us know what you think!

Happy shopping!

spectralman · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 06:00 pm »

Hi Lonewolf,

Yes, I still like the detail, but not an overly analytical presentation. For instance, I used to own an all Spectral/MIT set-up; I could never go back to that. I ended up selling off my Atma-Sphere amps (and preamp) to lessen my investment, but still miss their tremendous clarity and detail all presented with the proper harmonic richness.

Re/the AVA amp, I have been reading that some AC members feel the Ultra version of Frank's Fet Valve amps are the real deal. I still believe my older 550EXR was a little on the dark side. That's the reason for my original question.

I hope that explains where I'm coming from a little bit better.

Bill

spectralman · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 06:02 pm »

Quote from: opnly bafld on 6 Apr 2007, 01:38 pm

With large 4ohm speakers I would highly recommend trying Monarchy Audio SE250 Monoblocks @ $2500.
They are Tube/Mosfet hybrids biased class A to 50w, 250w into 8 and 500w into 4ohms.
IMO very sweet sounding amps. (also see review by Bound for Sound on Monarchy website)

Lin

I never thought about any Monarchy products as I don't know anything about them. Anybody out there have any experience with them?

Bill

Zero · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 06:05 pm »

I've only had experience with the Monarchy SM-70 Pro.

While its gain is extremely high and may not match well with many active pre-amplifiers, the sound of the unit can be very seductive and surprisingly powerful. The SM-70 Pro, while colored - has great musical soul and character while maintaining most of the attributes audiophiles pine for. It's far from perfect, but for the price, its also hard to fault.

I hope to one day acquaint myself with Monarchy's other offerings.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: A6M-ZERO on 6 Apr 2007, 06:05 pm

I've only had experience with the Monarchy SM-70 Pro.

While its gain is extremely high and may not match well with many active pre-amplifiers, the sound of the unit can be very seductive and surprisingly powerful. The SM-70 Pro, while colored - has great musical soul and character while maintaining most of the attributes audiophiles pine for. It's far from perfect, but for the price, its also hard to fault.

I hope to one day acquaint myself with Monarchy's other offerings.

I use an SAS Audio Labs 10a tube pre with my SE160s driving VMPS RM40s with very good results.

Lin

tonyptony · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 08:51 pm »

Quote from: spectralman on 6 Apr 2007, 06:00 pm

Re/the AVA amp, I have been reading that some AC members feel the Ultra version of Frank's Fet Valve amps are the real deal. I still believe my older 550EXR was a little on the dark side. That's the reason for my original question.

I hope that explains where I'm coming from a little bit better.

Bill

Bill, while I have not yet put up my review of the Ultra 550 on the AVA circle, I can tell you that as an owner of an EXR5 which was upgraded to the Ultra I'm not sure that the difference between the two would equate to the EXR having been "darker". The Ultra is more articulate in the low end, and generally "clearer" than the EXR, to where it is easier to sense the space of a recording. I think this is a big factor in how the music comes across as more 3 dimensional in my listening room. The EXR didn't do a bad job of this at all, but the Ultra is better in this regard. It does this without pushing the image forward to "fool" you into thinking the sound is more realistic. Would I say the EXR is darker? I'm not sure I would; tonally they both seem to have a similar character.

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 06:19 am »

I used to own the Reimer Teton's, I own the Dodd 120's, Moscode 401 hr, Mactone MA300B, and custom wavelengths. I have never heard the AVA's, BUT, I really believe the Moscode, or dodd's would be the best for you. To me, the tweeter needs to be tamed a bit, and tube swapping in the moscode is incredibly easy, and allows you to voice the amp for the best sonics. JMHO, but, MO COUNTS more, cuz I actually owned those speakers for over a year

:thumb:good luck in your journey

Kim S. · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 10:38 am »

I agree with Opnly Bafld that the Monarchy SE-250's are worth a look at. I recently bought them. They are mated with a ASL tube pre driving VMPS RM-40 speakers. The presentation is relaxed yet with plently of power.