Ref 9.02 to Ref 9 SE - my upgrade journey

stingfan · « **on:** 2 Apr 2007, 05:13 am »

Hi all, just finished some surgery on my Nuforce system this weekend. First upgrade was replacing my Ref 9's with 9SE's which I did today. This was done with a full listening test with the outgoing Ref 9's then again with the new and hardly broken in 9SE's. In summary, I seriously underestimated the difference between them. I've read all the reviews, and they all read quite impressively, but I discovered much more beyond the standard "bass has more weight, mid-range is better, and highs are sweeter..." Even with minimal break-in, my hyper-efficient/sensitive Zu Druids (101db) responded immediately...as in right out of the box. What I heard was this:

1. Guitar chords were split into their individual notes...yes I could hear the tone from each string.

2. I could actually hear, feel, and practically see the room in which the music was originally recorded...this goes way beyond soundstage as we know it.

3. The 9SE's bass was without question already weightier than the Ref 9's out of the box, but it was also far more revealing and precise. Even as I played just a few hours into the break-in I could sweat my entire loft was transformed into a musical stage like nothing I have ever encountered, hands down. And I've heard some of the best of the best out there.

4. While the high's were perhaps sweeter, I didn't get the impression of any softening, or 'watery' feeling that the term "sweet" can sometimes reveal. The mid and highs were so incredibly straightforward and addicting to listen to for hours.

5. The detail was really most obvious to me. The separation of every instrument and vocal chord, all the way down to the most subtle bass notes were so clearly articulated, I was just blown away.

I recently saw an ad somewhere from Bang & Olufsen's new Beo9's. It said something like "If its been awhile since you've gotten a tingle down your spine from listening to your music, its time to try the Beo 9's" Well, I've been listening to some serious hi-fi gear well beyond B&O for a while now, and believe me the only 9's that have ever come close to this experience for me were the 9SE's from today. And most surprisingly, this was only after I was already well impressed and well adjusted to the incredible 9.02s.

How could an upgrade make such an incredible difference? I began to think (only for a few seconds) that maybe I was listening to faulty 9.02s for the past year. Obviously not the case. My 9.02s are perfect, but the upgrade was really over the top. I think that my Zu Druid's definitely have something to do with bringing this magic forward in such a potent and unexpected manner. Their near perfect coherency and hyper sensitivity simply bring out the best (or worst) of an amp immediately. Needless to say the 9SE's had nothing but good things to say to the Zu's.

After several hours of loft-flooded demo's from my Apple Lossless mp3's through my CIAudio VDA-2 DAC including: Art of Noise, Seal (acoustic), Tracy Chapman, Sting (acoustic), and some John Coltrane on SACD, I was beginning to honestly believe that I was probably listening to the best hi-fi in existence, and I hadn't even dipped into my 2000 Opus One Cabernet yet... However, the best was yet to come...no, not just better sound once these amps were fully broken in...no, not just that. The best to come is my new P-9 pre-amp that replaces my P-8. I specifically held back on the P-9 installation today so I could get my head around the 9SE's in a fair A/B comparison. I thought I'd keep the system with just the 9SE's all the way through the break-in period. However, after just one day, I've heard enough, been blown away. Not to mention the unopened P-9 boxes sitting in my loft were driving me crazy.

So tonight after about 10 hours of continuous listening, jamming, and relaxing, I broke ranks and unboxed the P-9, and dropped it ever so carefully into my system. The 2-unit pre-amp looks awesome together with 9SE's on my custom Nuforce stands. I shall repeat my demo tomorrow, with the P-9 in full swing with the 9SE's. Review to follow soon after. I can only take being completely floored like this, once in a day. In summary, the 9SE's are incomparable at any price and any system. Sounds like a pretty bold statement, I know, but it is what I honestly believe. The break-in should be quite an experience!

Karsten · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Apr 2007, 08:30 am »

Stingfan,

I'm looking forward to your comments on the P9

The P8 is good, but the P9 is in a whole other league. You are going to have fun..

Regards,
Karsten

beachbum · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Apr 2007, 11:47 am »

stingfan thanks for your thoughts on the super sounding ref-9 SE amps. they are sure a step above ref -9, super revealing, fast, and easily drive my tylers, looking forward to your thoughts on introducing p-9 to your system, what a fun hobby especially when you can have equipment like our nuforce gear that elevates our systems to such revealing and easy listening music sessions,

eosdigic · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 May 2007, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: stingfan on 2 Apr 2007, 05:13 am

Hi all, just finished some surgery on my Nuforce system this weekend. First upgrade was replacing my Ref 9's with 9SE's which I did today. This was done with a full listening test with the outgoing Ref 9's then again with the new and hardly broken in 9SE's. In summary, I seriously underestimated the difference between them. I've read all the reviews, and they all read quite impressively, but I discovered much more beyond the standard "bass has more weight, mid-range is better, and highs are sweeter..." Even with minimal break-in, my hyper-efficient/sensitive Zu Druids (101db) responded immediately...as in right out of the box. What I heard was this:

Hi stingfan,
My Ref 9.02 hearing experience is that the soundstage is wide but shallow (flat). And location of the performer is not so clear. For example, you know the singer is in front of you, but cannot exactly locate him

. Does 9 SE version resolve this problem? or anybody know that V2 will do?

miklorsmith · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 May 2007, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: stingfan on 2 Apr 2007, 05:13 am

In summary, the 9SE's are incomparable at any price and any system.

WOW!

beachbum · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 May 2007, 01:25 am »

eosdigic i understand what your are trying to experience, beyond our nuforce gear the rest of your system is as important to achieve that pinpoint sound stage, room treatment comes into play also. thats what makes our hobby so much fun, and expensive, your ref 9s along with the rest of your system should pinpoint all players, if you are not getting it i think you can safely say the ref9s pass and move to another item in your system,

eosdigic · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 May 2007, 02:22 am »

Quote from: beachbum on 4 May 2007, 01:25 am

eosdigic i understand what your are trying to experience, beyond our nuforce gear the rest of your system is as important to achieve that pinpoint sound stage, room treatment comes into play also. thats what makes our hobby so much fun, and expensive, your ref 9s along with the rest of your system should pinpoint all players, if you are not getting it i think you can safely say the ref9s pass and move to another item in your system,

I agree with you, maybe I shall adjust speaker position again to fit the new coming ref 9.
But base on the same setup, is ref 9SE better than ref 9 in soundstage depth and imaging?

rustydoglim · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 May 2007, 09:53 am »

Quote

But base on the same setup, is ref 9SE better than ref 9 in soundstage depth and imaging?

I also suggest that you try to examine the positioning of your speakers.
With the introduction of version 2.0 (V2), you can consider upgrading from Ref 9 to Ref 9 V2. Basically with Nuforce products, you have a lot of flexibility to start at entry level before going up the performance scale.

referenceaudionz · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 May 2007, 08:04 pm »

Just installed the V2 boards along with SE upgrade & it's shockingly good straight out of the box - no warmup or run-in.

finally up there with the best, tube or solid state...

Bass, midrange, treble, stage depth, image localisation all sounds sorted. There's finally flesh behind the vocals, and has me riveted which NuForce hasn't quite done until now. All with effortless authority, and not just in the bass. They really have floored distortion with version 2.

It's an unqualified recommendation - get those 9's upgraded

(note: I'm a dealer for components listed)
Bluenote Stibbert (cryo)tube CDP> Stealth Meatcarbon> Shindo Aurieges> Stealth Nanofiber> Ref9SE v2, CrystalPower Reference cords & Devore Super 8's.

referenceaudionz · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 May 2007, 10:50 am »

stingfan, eosdigic
Zu speakers seem to love the control from NuForce amps: I've enjoyed the combination from Ref8's on. Be assured, there's a good percentage of the SE performance you won't hear on the Druids. Being wideband drivers they have different strengths than ultimate transparency. For staging - they're great for scale & the big picture, but just a little diffuse on imaging. Though V2 improves on all of this and more...

togil · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 May 2007, 05:53 pm »

If they have "floored distortion" on V2 does that mean a 1 kHz square wave now looks good ?

This was one of the main objections raised by Mr. D'Agostino of Krell in the November TAS article.

timothyharnett · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jun 2007, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: referenceaudionz on 31 May 2007, 10:50 am

stingfan, eosdigic
Zu speakers seem to love the control from NuForce amps: I've enjoyed the combination from Ref8's on. Be assured, there's a good percentage of the SE performance you won't hear on the Druids. Being wideband drivers they have different strengths than ultimate transparency. For staging - they're great for scale & the big picture, but just a little diffuse on imaging. Though V2 improves on all of this and more...

Imaging is the second area that I would most criticise my 9.02 (the first being RFI). My V2 and SE upgrades arrive tomorrow & have hopes for a significant improvement. Valves still image better than a 9.02 V1.

mcullinan · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jun 2007, 10:20 pm »

Tim,
:)I got the same upgrade and it arrives this Friday. Let me know how your new V2Ses perform!
Mike

rustydoglim · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 01:55 pm »

Remember to adjust the speaker position slightly. You should treat V2 as a different amp.

Viclondon · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: nuforce-jason on 6 Jun 2007, 01:55 pm

Remember to adjust the speaker position slightly. You should treat V2 as a different amp.

?? What do you mean. Could you develop please?

mcullinan · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 03:28 pm »

Maybe he means to turn the speakers upside down.... Onli kiddin. What do you mean?
Mike

KrK · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 04:04 pm »

Tomorrow my updated Ref 9.02 SE to V2 are coming back!

mcullinan · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Jun 2007, 07:03 pm »

My updated 9SEv2s come back tomorrow too! Luckily Im wearing diapers right now cauz I got so excited I peed myself... hmm. That sounds a bit twisted. Ok.
Mike

beachbum · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 12:42 am »

hey guys and congrats on your upgrade to V-2, what i have done to eliminate the anticipation is plan the upgrade when i go on vacation. the timing of nuforce is just right for summer. last year i went from ref 9 to SE. when i take this summers vacation hello V-2. nuforce had my SEs back in town before i did wow. Please give us you impressions of V-2. and happy musical days

timothyharnett · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2007, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 3 Jun 2007, 10:20 pm

Tim,
:)I got the same upgrade and it arrives this Friday. Let me know how your new V2Ses perform!
Mike

Very good actually. It does indeed fix the RFI problem completely (It was even affecting my FM walkman as far away as the garden gate). The imaging is much, much better and there is a basic improvement in tonality.

It took 24 hours for the improvements to really kick in. I'm subbing below 50Hz so I don't know too much about what is going on down there but the additional control in the top and the upper midband is very noticeable.