[nicolasb]

In this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=17241.msg192534#msg192534 James Tanner promised that Parametric EQ would be added to the SP2 "in the near future". That was in September 2005. Has anyone seen it yet?



Talking of EQ and room correction, there was a highly complimentary review of an Audyssey MultEQ room correction system over at the (extremely well-informed) AVForums site recently:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490969

In all seriousness this piece of equipment is probably the most important product to hit the market yet, it is a truly mind blowing technology which has finally cured the biggest problem anyone who loves hi fi and Home Cinema has, and that’s their room.

I cannot stress enough that you really should get to a dealer and check this magic box out now! Don’t even consider buying another piece of equipment until you hear this unit, this will be the biggest and most cost effective upgrade you will ever make to your system……period.

The Audyssey system truly is an industry changing product; you could see that at a recent trade show where most manufacturers seemed to be running scared and in denial. The power and flexibility along with its simple set up and stunning performance envelope will change the way many of us approach building a system in the future, for everyone else, you don’t know what you are missing. The Audyssey MultEQ Pro is a reference quality product that is set to change room acoustical problems for good and let us all enjoy our movies and music in the best way possible, and in stunning detail!

The algorithm used in Audyssey devices was designed to run on variants of the same DSP that is used in Bryston's SP2 (the TI "Aureus" chip). I keep hoping James T will decide that it would be a good idea to implement it on the SP2....

[James Tanner]

Hi Nicolasb,

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

james

[MOZ]

Hi Nicolasb,

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

james

And about the HDMI thing James ???

Nicolasb,
A friend of mine has bought one (Audyssey) and is more than pleased with it !!!
As for me, i'm working with a simple Audiocontrol BIJOU (THX 5.1) but it is a perfect match with my system (and allows me to do a complete EQ with DOLBY TrueHD used in analog  )...

As for Bryston, if they doesn't support HDMI at Xmass, i'll probably switch to another pre (sorry James but you've got to show us something !!!)...

[Slingshotx]

The Audyssey looks very interesting, if it works aswell as everyone is claiming on a sound per £ basis I may be better off selling my SP1.7 and replacing with a cheap preamp and an Audyssey, it would certainly be an interesting experiment.

I had a TAG for a while without the EQ because I never heard a setup I thought worked, but maybe this new Audyssey is heading in the right direction.

[nicolasb]

Hi Nicolasb,

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

Well, I rather suspected there wasn't. Is there any chance that there will be any work done on parametric EQ at any time in the foreseeable future?

And what caused the change in policy?

[Thunder]

Hi Nicolasb,

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

james

Good to hear James. Please don't add it, ever. Please do get us HDMI capability though, asap!

[James Tanner]

Hi Nicolasb,

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

james

Good to hear James. Please don't add it, ever. Please do get us HDMI capability though, asap!

I have been told that none of the new players are putting out the new DD HD etc yet ?

[MOZ]

James,

It is a bit more complicated than that...
You get DD PLUS & DOLBY TrueHD converted in linear PCM multichanel by the player and then sent to the pre by the HDMI out.
The pre only needs an HDMI in, 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3... it doesn't matter !
You don't need to get the HD audio decoders in the pre 'cause the HD discs won't allow to bypass the converting thing (audio HD to PCM)...

So, a simple HDMI in would be enough for us !!!
Just make sure it can pass 1080p24/50/60 for the video and that's all...

Here is what Anthem responds to that question, James 

http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/AnthemProduct/AVM30_40_50/Literature/Downloads/HDMI_Questions_PDS.pdf

[Phil A]

I'm going to disagree with he above.  It's only a matter of less than a yr. before HDMI 1.3 will be available in most devices and once the technology is in place, it's only a matter of time before sources get caught up and we see some of those applicationsused.  Below I've posted from a site on the history and capabilities of HDMI versions.  My biggest gripe with a co. like Bryston is perhaps not making available HT Bypass on a product that the BP-26 so those of us who care about 2-channel but want the latest in HT as quickly as possible can make a choice that is right for that particular individual.  My bedroom system backs to my main system (and they are interconnected to a degree) and I'm waiting on a TV until I can get 1080p (so I can feed both systems from the same player or PC whatever I end up with and have the same resolution) and HDMI 1.3 (probably late in the summer).  For the size of the bedroom TV I have and will get (40 inches) for that system I really won't see tons of difference in video quality (and it does not get used tons) but it will be nice to have one player w/o going into the set-up menu every time I play a disc on a different system.  I'm waiting on the bedroom rec'r for HDMI 1.3 too.  The rec'r (I have now) is 6 yrs. old in the bedroom and it will be more than fine for use with the sound card out of my PC.  A bit longer is not the end of world.  I have not sent my SP 1.7 in for upgrade as I want the HDMI issue resolved (unless James tells me HT Bypass is coming to the BP26) and the unit sent away and then it can stay in place.
http://www.geardigest.com/2007/01/08/hdmi-past-present-and-future/

"Here is a brief overview of the version history of HDMI:

HDMI 1.0 - 12/2002

Single-cable digital audio/video connection with a maximum bitrate of 4.9 Gbps. Supports up to 165 Megapixels/second of video (1080p @ 60 Hz or UXGA) and 8-channel/192kHz/24-bit audio.
HDMI 1.1 - 5/2004

Additional support for DVD Audio content protection
HDMI 1.2 - 8/2005

Additional support for Super Audio CDs
HDMI Type A connection available for PC sources
PC sources can use native RGB color while retaining the option to support YCbCr color.
Support for low-voltages sources
HDMI 1.3 - 6/2006

Single-cable digital audio/video connection increased to 10.2 Gbps
Increased color support, including 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit color depths (RGB or YCbCr)
Supports xvYCC color standards
Supports automatic audio syncing capability
Supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams (audio codec formats used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray Discs) for external decoding by AV receivers.
Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders.

................

Feature HDMI 1.3
Maximum Data Rate 10.2 Gb/s
Maximum Resolution 2560x1440 progressive (1440p)
Maximum Color Bit Depth 48 bits
Maximum Colors Displayed 281 Trillion
Maximum Audio Sample Frequency (2 channels) 768 kHz
192 kHz (8 streams max)"

[MOZ]

If James can implement an HDMI 1.3 in the SP2, it will be ok for me 
But, i'd rather live with a 1.1 or 1.2 before Xmass (getting benefit of my HD DVD or BD player with PCM) than a 1.3 within 1 or 2 years (i'm starting to know James and his staff concerning delays !!!)...
That was my point 

[Phil A]

If James can implement an HDMI 1.3 in the SP2, it will be ok for me 
But, i'd rather live with a 1.1 or 1.2 before Xmass (getting benefit of my HD DVD or BD player with PCM) than a 1.3 within 1 or 2 years (i'm starting to know James and his staff concerning delays !!!)...
That was my point 

I completely understand your point and agree.  I've posted several times (with no answer rec'd) asking if it is possible that a BP26 with HT Bypass could be in the works for similar reasons.  I understand the problems that non-mass market cos. have vs. mainstream mass market producers who are better positioned to roll-out new technology.  I've had Bryston stuff before (e.g. 4BST - now have a 14BSST and a 6BSST) and one of the reasons I got rid of it was their slow entry into HT.  I do appreciate the quality they bring and don't rush things but some things change more rapidly than they may be geared to do with regard to customer wishes as noted in this thread.  If I could have a BP26 with HT Bypass I could just get a rec'r with features I want (e.g. HDMI 1.3 and upsampling the video via HDMI to 1080p and use the rear channel amps for the few times I'll do 6.1 in my system) and if that technology changes 3 or 4 yrs. down the road (or whenever), I can just go out and get a new rec'r and still have my 2-channel quality.  Everyone has their own take.  I'm not a big fan of EQ - I have an RTA which I've used for my room and have treated it.  But obviously some want it.  I also understand that as a co. Bryston must do what is best for it.  Just like someone else posted earlier in this thread that if Bryston does not get to HDMI they may consider alternatives, I may be in the same boat at some point.  If at CES in Jan. there seems to be a bunch of hi-def players coming after I upgrade my projector (mine will be 6 yrs. old by then and it does not have HDMI) I might have to start the search for a top notch 2 channel preamp with HT Bypass or think about another pre/pro.  It most likely will be a 10-12 mos. from now until I get to that point.

[nicolasb]

No work being done on the EQ at this point.

Good to hear James. Please don't add it, ever.

Thunder, how exactly does it have a negative effect on you if Bryston adds a new feature which you decide to leave switched off?  I will never understand people who say "I am not interested in X myself, and therefore no one should ever be allowed to have it." To describe that attitude as "selfish" would be an insult to selfish people.

Anyway, if we could possibly stop talking about HDMI just for a second I'm still hoping to get an answer to my pevious question: Bryston (or at least James Tanner) announced 18 months ago that support for parametric EQ would be added to the SP2 "in the near future"; what happened to change their minds? why didn't they tell us that they'd changed their minds at the time? and are there any plans to add such a feature in the future?

[James Tanner]

We did consider doing EQ as it is possible with the chip in the SP2.
Given the other changes coming down the pipe we have decided to wait until all of the other issues get sorted and then we will look at doing EQ again - possibly.

james

[brystonbrad]

Another vote for HDMI on the SP1.7/2.  What are you waiting for Bryston??  Get with the times already.  An EQ would be the last thing I want implemented on my SP2.  HDMI FIRST and decoding of Dolby TrueHD/DD+ and DTS-HD MA/HR would be nice too!   

I have both Blu-ray and HD DVD and we all know the SP1.7/2 only has one set of 5.1 analog inputs.  I would like to have lossless audio from both!   

[Phil A]

Another vote for HDMI on the SP1.7/2.  What are you waiting for Bryston??    

They are probably waiting for better availability of HDMI 1.3 chips.  My main system is on the other side of the wall to the bedroom system and I have a 6 yr. old 1st generation 40 inch 480p LCD in the bedroom.  I'm also due to upgrade the projector soon (no HDMI) in the main system.  I'd like both TVs to have the same resolution for ease of feeding each from the same (hi-def) video sources.  HDMI 1.3 in TVs will probably be more widely available in July/August.  I know Samsung has announced 1080p HDMI 1.3 sets for then.  As for Blu-Ray players I think only the PS3 can be software upgraded for top notch audio at this point. The other players are interim steps to a final goal.  I do agree when chips are more readily available Bryston should either make it a priority to make a BP-26 as I noted above with HT Bypass if they're not going to offer realistic support for HDMI on the pre/pro product.

[Thunder]

Thunder, how exactly does it have a negative effect on you if Bryston adds a new feature which you decide to leave switched off?  I will never understand people who say "I am not interested in X myself, and therefore no one should ever be allowed to have it." To describe that attitude as "selfish" would be an insult to selfish people.

[/quote]

Nicolas, I would go as far as to say that adding an EQ to Bryston's pre/pro is not consistent with their philosophy. I think people are drawn to Bryston because they sound fantastic, are reliable and offer great value. That is achieved by keeping things simple and pure just like they do in the studio. Bryston IMHO, is not about "bells and whistles" like so many other brands today. I love that about Bryston and hope it never changes.

You can choose to call me selfiish but all I am really saying is, stay how you are Bryston, stick to your roots, it has made you very successful.

Nicolas, if you so desperately want an EQ, why not check out another brand, one that better tailors to your needs versus trying to change an already great brand....  because that would be selfish

[MOZ]

Nicolas, if you so desperately want an EQ, why not check out another brand, one that better tailors to your needs versus trying to change an already great brand....  because that would be selfish

There are stand alone products that can be added to the SP2... concerning the EQ !
I would rather have HDMI capabilities (asap) than an EQ, too 

[Slingshotx]

That is achieved by keeping things simple and pure just like they do in the studio.

That is a long way from the truth, even the small studios I've seen aren't that simple there is usually a lot of processing power producing the sound you get to hear at home, although usually a lot of the EQ would be done with room treatments.

Even our small band playing live usually has to EQ all the instruments for the room, to get rid of those boomy bass notes etc.

As an example the BBC use a lot of PMC/Bryston kit have a look at their studios i.e. http://www.bbcradioresources.com/studios/maidavale/mv3/specification.html

I haven't had a chance to listen to any of the higher end home EQ stuff (only 2 ch studio EQ's), such as the Audyssey mentioned, but judging by everyone's comments and reviews on it, I really will be amazed if this type of thing doesn't become standard in a few years, after all if the music is good then does it matter if it's electronics doing it, or a pure analog path?

I'm not interested in HDMI at all, I have an analog input which will do fine for me (actually I don't understand why anyone needs HDMI when a 5.1 channel switch box will do for a lot less money), and if I was thinking of EQ I'd seriously consider an external processor that can be easily upgraded.

[Phil A]

I'm not interested in HDMI at all, I have an analog input which will do fine for me (actually I don't understand why anyone needs HDMI when a 5.1 channel switch box will do for a lot less money), and if I was thinking of EQ I'd seriously consider an external processor that can be easily upgraded.

Very simple.  The new formats can have more than 5.1 sound.  If you use the analog inputs you are ltd. to the bass management for the various channels in the player which are not sophisticated at all and and why go thru another digital to analog conversion or an extra switcher and cables.  There are more and more high end manuf. who offer HT bypass to their high end 2 channel preamps for the reasons I previously noted.  The digital formats changes more rapidly and they are not equiped to handle them as quickly as many customer would want.  This allows them to have a market for people with home theaters who like their 2 channel too.

[brucek]

......usually a lot of the EQ would be done with room treatments

Absolutely. Wavelengths of very low frequencies (in relation to most room dimensions) are long enough that the behavior is considered to be very well suited to equalization. For example, a 50Hz tone has a wavelength of about 22 feet, so primary reflections from the walls, floor and ceilings of the room arrive at the listening position with a phase shift of much less than a cycle. Subwoofer parametric equalizers inserted between the processor and subwoofer to take care of the resonances caused at these model frequencies are quite effective and inexpensive..

Outside this subwoofer low frequency range equalization is quite ineffective in creating suitable results beyond a very small listening sweet spot as a result of shorter wavelengths. The EQ at higher than subwoofer frequencies is really only valid at the point where the response was measured and a small region around that point (don't move your head). At these frequencies (which is generally where all these automatic parametric systems operate), well executed acoustic treatments can improve the response over a much larger area. At very low frequencies the treatments required are quite large. This is where equalization is effective and can be accomplished with a simple external subwoofer EQ device. Adding EQ to the SP2 would also require a harware change to include a microphone input.

To add broadband parametric equalization to the SP2 is simply a bad idea in my opinion. No doubt Bryston has come to a similar conclusion. 

brucek