[Pneumonic]

More power is better than less power.

+1. Using an underpowered amp makes no sense.

[Pneumonic]

It was instructive to go through the exercise, but I am not looking at 900 watt amplifiers; our house is already heated.

In the winters here I could use added warmth but, I run 1.3kW worth of AB amps and they barely get warm to touch.

[G Georgopoulos]

You know the saying "less is more"...

[Tyson]

I use active speakers, a 1000 watt amp on the bass section, a 50 watt amp on the 96db efficient midrange section, and a 25 watt amp on the 106db efficient tweeter.  Even though they are very efficient, I get a very flat frequency response because they are 3 ways, and I use some EQ. 

[Devil Doc]

As Big Daddy Don Garlits used to say, "There's no substitute for displacement." Goes for stereos as well as A/A fuel dragsters.

Doc

[Russell Dawkins]

You know the saying "less is more"...

Not when it comes to dynamic potential in sound reproduction.

I guess these new-fangled cheap high power class D amps are difficult to compete with, eh, George? Are you still making and selling amplifiers?

[JoshK]

F...I wrote a long reply and it got deleted.

The point I was trying to make is that this thread is off....power and spl is in log terms, not linear.  Thus 2,4, 8, 15, 32, 64 is linear not normal terms. 

What one needs for transiet power, i.e. <1% of the time and what one needs from an amp isn't max power.   Tube amps tend to compress, SS amps tend to clip (nasty sound). 

[G Georgopoulos]

Not when it comes to dynamic potential in sound reproduction.

Russell
high powered amps will raise the noise floor and distortion when turned to high volume
,a smaller amplifier with better noise figure would be as dynamic or better..
i dont get what you say,dynamic means s/n ratio not just loudness...

I guess these new-fangled cheap high power class D amps are difficult to compete with, eh, George? Are you still making and selling amplifiers?

class-d is implemented with chips,cpu's,smd etc...i have no problem with class-d...and no interest in them

[Diamond Dog]

As Big Daddy Don Garlits used to say, "There's no substitute for displacement." Goes for stereos as well as A/A fuel dragsters.

Doc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygBP7MtT3Ac

D.D.

[RDavidson]

While I definitely understand the idea of getting a massive amp and being set regardless of speakers one pairs with it, I have yet to hear a massive amp with multiple gain stages (that didn't cost an arm and a leg) sound as pure, detailed, and clean as a lower watt amp with only one or two gain stages when set up on appropriately sensitive/efficient speakers.........or speakers of average sensitivity used in a somewhat nearfield setting. It's horses for courses. You wouldn't drive a top fuel dragster on a winding track. At the same time, you wouldn't drag race a F1 car. It's not that you couldn't, but there are better tools for their respective jobs.
Don't get me wrong. I like all this stuff : High power, low power, high efficiency, low efficiency.......As long as it sounds good / engaging / makes me want to listen / has no obvious unnatural sonic shortcomings, then it's all good.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

With low powered amps you are limiting your speaker choices and how loud you can play unless you get high sensitivity speakers.  I run Magnepan 1.6's and I can tell you they love the current and power that my Pass amp puts out.  They sound much better at moderate and loud volume with 500wpc than 125wpc.  Even at low volumes the control and dynamics of my amp is superb.  Of course the preamp that you use plays an important role in dynamics.  I had a Pass X1 preamp that sounded great but my BAT sounds even better and is more dynamic.  Both were dead silent preamps with the BAT having the edge despite using 8 tubes.

By the way, I am not against low powered amps and have a 30wpc system in my bedroom that sounds awesome.

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I have a Decware SE84C+ (SET) with only 2wpc.
Most of the time it's enough/adequate for my small listening room at non disco volume.
Of course the dynamic is often limited by the 2wpc,
but the sound quality is so good that I accept that fact.
I've tired before a 6L6 SEP with 10wpc and a Sony ss 15wpc
and of course I had more dynamics,
but the sound quality was inferior.
According to my several trial, I think a 7 or 15 wpc amplifier would improve the dynamics,
however 7wpc can be done with EL34 SET but the 15 wpc could be done with parallel tubes
or push-pull, but the sound quality would be inferior that's almost sure.
So, until I win the Jack Pot at the lottery, I will keep and enjoy my Decware 2wpc.
Of course the Omega 7F OBD (Open Baffle Dipole) count for a lot in the sound quality.

Guy 13
More power = more $$$ = better sound quality ????

[Early B.]

While I definitely understand the idea of getting a massive amp and being set regardless of speakers one pairs with it, I have yet to hear a massive amp with multiple gain stages (that didn't cost an arm and a leg) sound as pure, detailed, and clean as a lower watt amp with only one or two gain stages when set up on appropriately sensitive/efficient speakers.........or speakers of average sensitivity used in a somewhat nearfield setting. It's horses for courses. You wouldn't drive a top fuel dragster on a winding track. At the same time, you wouldn't drag race a F1 car. It's not that you couldn't, but there are better tools for their respective jobs.
Don't get me wrong. I like all this stuff : High power, low power, high efficiency, low efficiency.......As long as it sounds good / engaging / makes me want to listen / has no obvious unnatural sonic shortcomings, then it's all good.

I had a friend with the setup you described -- high efficiency speakers with a lower watt tube amp. He swore it sounded good. Then I brought my massive amp to his house, hooked it up, and his music immediately came to life. Afterwards, he still swore his flea amp sounded good. Some people prefer low powered music -- hey, whatever floats their boat. 

[RDavidson]

I had a friend with the setup you described -- high efficiency speakers with a lower watt tube amp. He swore it sounded good. Then I brought my massive amp to his house, hooked it up, and his music immediately came to life. Afterwards, he still swore his flea amp sounded good. Some people prefer low powered music -- hey, whatever floats their boat.

Circuit design is more important than just power output. That's why giant amps that also seem to have the purity of simple (typically class A with only one or two gain stages), really well designed, low power amps cost an arm and a leg. I have no doubt that in your experience your big amp trounced your buddy's flea amp (at least in ways that you find more important than your friend), but I would never make a blanket statement that high power is ALWAYS better. High power vs low power is of less importance than synergy........unless you're one who believes all amps sound the same.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

High power done right sounds good just as low power done right.  I would love to have a First Watt amp by Nelson Pass.  Those low watt amps of his cost about what my X250 amp cost new and even more depending upon the model. 

Its really about system matching.  I love the sound of Magnepans and a 50wpc amp won't cut it for my size room and the moderate to occasionally loud volume that I like to listen to.  I know people run some models of maggies on 50 wpc tube amps and I am sure that it sounds great but it just won't cut the mustard at my house.

My 30wpc system consists of a Dayton Audio DTA100a digital amp, a pair of Monitor Audio S1 speakers and a Maverick Tube Magic tube DAC.  It sounds awesome and I could be perfectly happy with this as my only system.  It is dynamic, tube like with a hint of warmth and darkness with excellent detail.  All for under $1K.  In fact I am amazed at how good it sounds.  It presents a nice 3d holographic image and a huge sound stage.  It is more forgiving than my reference system.

[Tyson]

You can have a First Watt amp if you build it.  That's what I did - I built an F5 for my tweeters and a First Watt Burning Amp 3 (basically an F4 with gain) for the mids.  And I use a Crown K2 amp with 800 watts on the bass. 

If people really want their speakers to "come alive" they should consider kicking that power sucking passive crossover to the curb and going fully active.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

You can have a First Watt amp if you build it.  That's what I did - I built an F5 for my tweeters and a First Watt Burning Amp 3 (basically an F4 with gain) for the mids.  And I use a Crown K2 amp with 800 watts on the bass. 

If people really want their speakers to "come alive" they should consider kicking that power sucking passive crossover to the curb and going fully active.

I wish I was that handy.  I can use a soldering iron but I am not very adept when it comes to following schematics for electronic gear from scratch.

Besides, where do you get the kit or plans?

[Pneumonic]

What sonic difference exists between a low powered amp that "performs" with inaudible levels of distortion and a high powered amp that does the same? 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If you can hear and verify with your ears distortion in my 500wpc system at moderate to moderately loud volumes coming from my amp then I will give you $100.  Maybe with cheap or  a poorly designed amp and preamp you can hear it.

[G Georgopoulos]

If you can hear and verify with your ears distortion in my 500wpc system at moderate to moderately loud volumes coming from my amp then I will give you $100.  Maybe with cheap or  a poorly designed amp and preamp you can hear it.

subjective tests are not good to show up distortion(inaudible),you can do thd measurements,however what
Pneumonic said was inaudible distortion,there is no sonic difference in that case.