Looking for 12ax7's for Scott 222c

nodiak · « **on:** 23 Mar 2007, 07:28 pm »

Budget is 15-$20 ea. That cuts down on the discussion huh!?

Sorry didn't mean to take all the fun out of it!

I am in "listening to music mode" these days and so basically won't be focusing a long, tiring hunt on the best Tele's, Mullards, etc. Looking for best bang for the buck in the $60-80/quad range. Later I'll decide if I want to upgrade.

I'm enjoying the 222c, Ryan at Hot Glass did a great job of rebuilding it, it sounds very nice. It currently has Sovtek 5AR4 (JJ GZ34 was a nice but a bit too bloomy), RCA 6U8's, JJ EL84's. 12ax7's are Sovtek 12ax7wb's which are pretty lifeless, tried some JJ's which play bigger and better, but a bit soft, (and they aren't mine so the search). Still made a big improvement. Looking for a step up in clarity and 3d tho.

So far from web searching what looks possible: Tung Sol 12ax7 "new issue", Sovtek 12ax7lps, EH12ax7. I'm hoping for good clarity, 3d, not overdone bloom.

Open to help from the experienced!

Thanks, Don

nhtran · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 07:57 pm »

EI goldpins all the way (unless you can find a good deal on some NOS tubes that is)

markC · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 08:26 pm »

If the amp can handle 5751's, (it should be able to, but I'd contact the guy at Hotglass to be sure), try the Sovteks. Nice big sound without being too big in the bloomers in my equipment.

Toka · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 09:24 pm »

The Sovtek LPS are much better than their previous offerings...I would certainly give them a try (along with EI Gold's).

SET Man · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 05:28 am »

Hey!

My Audio Note M1 pre use 4 12AX7s in the phono stage. It came with a set of Sovtek 12AX7 as stock tubes.

Later on I've changed them to a set of JJ ... I did preferred them over the Sovtek.

Than I've changed to a set EI Elite Gold pin 12AX7s in '02. That was a few years ago and I'm still using them right now. I really like the sound of these tubes in my pre.

It had been almost 5 years now and they still perform well, quiet, and still measured well on my Hickok tube tester. Seem like I could still get a year or two out of them... nice!

So, my vote for best new production 12AX7 that I've tried so far will go to EI Elite Gold pin.

Also, I've read good thing about the regular non-gold pin EI tubes... basically same tube. So, it might be worthwhile to check it out and it is cheaper. If I can't find the gold pin than I would definitely go for the regular EI.

But lately it seem to be hard to find at a good price. I've read that EI company is now going through a reconstruction but new batch should be coming in soon.

Take care,
Buddy

jrebman · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 12:18 pm »

Don,

If I'm correct, 2 of those tubes are for the phono stage only, so if you're not using it, then you can double your budget for the remaining two tubes and you could possibly score some cleartops or something like that.

I've been stocking up on tubes for mine -- just got a matched quad of cryo'ed JJ Tesla EL84s, a brand spanking new unobtanium 60s, twin-getter Mullard GZ34, and will now be looking for a couple of matched pairs of the 12ax7s. I haven't really even looked into the 6u8s because as far as I can tell, these are cheap as all, and not a lot of variation, but I could be totally wrong about that.

For current production on the 12ax7s, the groove tubes and the EI elites seem to get a lot of positive comments, and although I've never tried the 12ax7 variants from Sovtek, and especially not these new ones folks have mentioned, I have just never had a good sounding tube from Sovtek -- be it 6l6, 6sn7, 6n1p -- they all just sound very thin and sterile to me and zilch for the dynamics -- but that's limited experience so take it for what it's worth.

P.S. -- I had a nice solid Walnut cabinet made for mine and it looks pretty nice. Can't wait until the amp gets it's overhaul!

-- Jim

Odd I/O · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Mar 2007, 04:37 am »

Quote from: nodiak on 23 Mar 2007, 07:28 pm

... 12ax7's are Sovtek 12ax7wb's which are pretty lifeless, tried some JJ's which play bigger and better, but a bit soft, (and they aren't mine so the search). Still made a big improvement. Looking for a step up in clarity and 3d tho...

I've tinkered with tons of 12ax7's ---but all the current production sound pretty much alike to me. I agree that the JJ's sound better than the Sov's, but the re-issues out there did not sound sound any better or have any more broadness than the JJ's....
I discovered that NOS Seimens 12ax7 sound comparable to the Telefunkens, but since the Seimens name is not quite the buzzword like Tele or Mullard, it can be a lot easier to get them for a reasonable price. I also hate having to search and search for gear...But for me, It turned out to be a well worthwhile compromise of putting a little bit more effort than I wanted to, but In return, I got the reward of 4 of the BEST 12ax7 / ECC83 I have ever heard...They came to about 22 dollars each... and worth every penny....and WAY, WAY more economical than even USED mullards or Teles....And the Siemens were NOS!
----Anyway, that's the avenue that my 12ax7 adventures took me.

JoshK · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Mar 2007, 04:59 am »

shhh

siemens are the bomb in most everything they made, but if you blab the price will go up like crazy for siemens tubes.

Jon L · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Mar 2007, 07:28 am »

I just got in some Sovtek 12AX7LPS and really like it. I also have Ei 12AX7, Sovtek 12AX7WA, Sovtek 5751, and a bunch of NOS including Amperex and mainly 5751's. I love 5751's especially Sylvania black plate TM 5751 and GE 5-star.

Given the usual system-matching and preference, Sovtek 12AX7LPS is sounding quite bold, rich, yet clear and very detailed. A great bargain!

nodiak · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Mar 2007, 06:24 pm »

Good to read all the replies, thanks. I decided to try a pair of Sovtek LPS, a lot of comments around about these being one of best of new tubes. Another Scott owner recommends them also. Cheap and worth a try. I'd like to get some vintage tubes too, think the secrets out, everybody's playing the $ game on all brands. Odd I/O, I'll definitely put Siemens on the list.
It's also been recommended to use 7189's in the 222C for higher voltage. Probably get new Sovtek EL84M's for a start, then search out vintage.

Jim, thanks for the reminder on only needing pairs for phono and line stage, I'll go that route (I will be setting up a TT soon). Hope you get the Scott back soon! Mine is sounding so good with the Hemps that I decided to put off trying other speakers for a while. Sounds like a nice cabinet. Same here on Sovteks so far, seems these LPS are a break through.
Josh, thanks for helping to fund the new tubes, I'll get the 6sl7's out tomorrow.

Open to more comments...and any offers on vintage tubes for good prices

!

Don

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Mar 2007, 07:22 pm »

nodiak,

My vote is for the 12AX7LPS', too. I have the Sovtek 12AX7WB's, too, and they are better. I have some vintage Telefunken 12AX7's too (don't know if they're at the end of their useful life) and I thought there was zero loss of fidelity swapping in the 12AX7LPS' for them.

The Tung-Sol's (also a New Sensor company) might be the only thing I try in the future instead of them. I'm not in any particular urge to do so, tho

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 03:05 am »

In your price range I would look for some tested EI 12AX7's.
Stay away from the Groove Tube 12AX7M as they test all over the place and they don't seem to last very long when you do find some nice testing ones. I picked up a hundred of them brand new and only about 10% tested closely to one another. Heck ,5 of them the vacuum leaked out and were all white on top. They do sound great though, I'll give them that when you can keep them from going microphonic or noisey.
A few folks like the new reissue Russian Tungsols.

SET Man · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 04:01 pm »

Quote from: Bill O'Connell on 27 Mar 2007, 03:05 am

In your price range I would look for some tested EI 12AX7's.
Stay away from the Groove Tube 12AX7M as they test all over the place and they don't seem to last very long when you do find some nice testing ones. I picked up a hundred of them brand new and only about 10% tested closely to one another. Heck ,5 of them the vacuum leaked out and were all white on top. They do sound great though, I'll give them that when you can keep them from going microphonic or noisey.
A few folks like the new reissue Russian Tungsols.

Hey!

Hmmm.... interesting. I've never try the Groove tube but from what I've read. They are basically relabeled Chinese tube

Relabeling is not that bad but Groove Tube should have test them and have some QC before selling those relabeled tube.

You know I was going to buy a bunch of those Chinese 12AX7 and match them myself and try them since they are very cheap... I guess I better off not wasting my time, spend more and just get EI tube that I'm currently using and like than

BTW... where do you guys buy EI tube anyway? I bought my set from Trioldeel nearly 5 years ago but I haven't see them with EI tube for a while now. I've found it hard to find dealer that have a good stock of these tube especially EI Elite gold pin version at a reasonable price. And most of those dealer don't have matching service... this is not much of a problem for me now since I just got a tube tester.

Take care,
Buddy

mark funk · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 04:37 pm »

Hello, There are many places to get Ei tubes. I go to Tubedepot.com. FYI Ei Elite Gold pin tubes are the same as Ei 12AX7wa only difference is the gold pins so save some money and get the WAs

mark funk · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 04:43 pm »

Sorry my misstake

Ei does not make WAs they are just 12AX7

SET Man · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 04:45 pm »

Quote from: mark funk on 27 Mar 2007, 04:37 pm

FYI Ei Elite Gold pin tubes are the same as Ei 12AX7wa only difference is the gold pins so save some money and get the WAs

Hey!

Thanks. Yes, I know that and there is no WA version.

Never bought anything from tubedepot.com. I found their testing options menu interesting... now with that it could get a bit pricey.

Take care,
Buddy

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 12:02 pm »

I have a "golden eared" friend that searched to replace a pair of Golden Dragon 12AX7's as drivers in his Mac amp. He settled on platinum matched Electro Harmonix 12AX7's that sound great in his system. I am going to try the cryo'd version in my phono pre.

nodiak · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 09:55 pm »

Hi guys. So I went through some things I'm not using, am selling them, and am using some of the $ to buy tubes.
12ax7- so far: Sovtek LPS, Tung Sol reissue, Shuguang C9, RCA '50's grey long plates, Tungsram. Soon as more stuff sells I think some Mullard types as I think the character may work for me. Also curious about the Ei 's you guys like, and EH, and Siemens...and...and...
Still listening but so far:
RCA has deepest bass and some nice treble sparkle. Relaxed and open but - Unfortunately one doesn't light up like the other one and may be the cause of some softness. Hope to get a replacement.
Tungsram - the ebay nightmare. I went for a cheap pair and they were sent from Europe with a little bubble wrap in an envelope. I have no idea why the one didn't smash into a thousand pieces like the other. Frickin brainiac. He said he'd try to find another and send it. Yah, ok guy!

! Really interested in these...still.
Sovtek LPS - all around clean and open, unoffensive, wish it had bass of RCA (which were pretty dramatically beyond all).
TungSol - just like they say - big , warm, musical. But not the clarity of LPS.
Shuguang C9 - was clean and open but thin. Needs break in? The seller considers them warm, maybe a synergy thing.

EL84 - NOS Russian 7189EB, Amperex Holland D gettter. Both are on the way. I R angchuss 4 ther urivul!

Hey, what about tube swapping so we don't have to buy em all? Is that a good or bad idea considering shipping $ ?

Don

jrebman · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 10:19 pm »

Quote from: nodiak on 12 Apr 2007, 09:55 pm

Hi guys. So I went through some things I'm not using, am selling them, and am using some of the $ to buy tubes.
12ax7- so far: Sovtek LPS, Tung Sol reissue, Shuguang C9, RCA '50's grey long plates, Tungsram. Soon as more stuff sells I think some Mullard types as I think the character may work for me. Also curious about the Ei 's you guys like, and EH, and Siemens...and...and...
Still listening but so far:
RCA has deepest bass and some nice treble sparkle. Relaxed and open but - Unfortunately one doesn't light up like the other one and may be the cause of some softness. Hope to get a replacement.

Don,

Reading over that list I would have guessed you would like the RCAs best. I'm sure you can still find some.

I started from the two other ends than you -- managed to get a couple of extremely nice, mint, perfect labels, etc. Mullard GZ34 rectifiers -- one for the Scott and another for another someday project. I also picked up a cryo'ed matched quad of JJ/Tesla EL84s from cryoset.com -- the guy who will be rebuilding my amp likes them a lot.

Then, I stumbled across some information about the 6u8s that you might like to know: these are supposed to be fairly important to the sound (but I suppose you can say that about all of the tubes). Anyway, these are a very tight and precision made tube on the inside and because of the close tolerances, lots of these things fail, or don't work well in audio (for which they were never designed.) You should spend some time looking for a well-tested set of these or you may go mad if you have to keep buying lots of $5 tubes and replacing them. I finally found somebody who understood about all this -- Andy at Vintage Tube Services -- he says he throws 80% of these things away because they fail or don't test well enough for audio. He also says the RCAs sound the best so not worth the time looking for Telefunkens or other euro types. As with the Mullard rectifiers, these will last a good long time when you get a nice pair.

I'm probably going to get a set of the EI Elite gold pins just to start, and maybe some RCAs or Raytheons or Sylvanias next, but the EIs seem to be in short supply right now.

I just got a new tube pre for my other system, and I already had a decent selection of 12au7s and variants, but bought a couple more, plus some 6x4 rectifiers, and as soon as my anti-ics arrive (today??) I'll be able to give that a go.

Still no sign of my place coming up in the rebuild queue, so for now it's just a matter of waiting patiently.

Good luck and keep us posted.

-- Jim

JoshK · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Apr 2007, 12:37 am »

by the way, don, i got the 6sl7's.

thanks a bunch dude.