[jules]

from a purists side i would not invite magnetic metals to enter my house of sound

Purists position has respect here but perhaps I can add the point that one of the stainless steels most commonly used for folding/case making, 304, is mildly magnetic. It won't hold a magnetic field and it's actually hard to detect that it has any magnetic properties but it  resists the sort of AC generated magnetic fields you get in audio which is quite useful.

jules

[whubbard]

Thanks Jules, might have to give some 304 a shot and see how it sounds. I'll try and make it easy to remove so I can compare with other metals. Any other favorites for blocking AC magnetic fields?

-West

[LM]

Ron.

Waiting here with baited breath.  Any preliminary findings on the Wima, Solens etc cap shootout?  I need something to get my mind off stepped attenuators.

[AKSA]

Lyn,

I enjoyed that.......

This virus does have good and bad days..... 

Hugh

[whubbard]

Ron.

Waiting here with baited breath.  Any preliminary findings on the Wima, Solens etc cap shootout?  I need something to get my mind off stepped attenuators.

I sent a PM to Ron about this earlier today but haven't heard back yet. I didn't want to push him into making a premature decision, but I do want to start putting together some information for the group buy. I've put together a little bit of on both (prices & times & matching), but I want to really figure it all out for one of the caps soon. I'm just looking for solen>wima or vise versa, not solen is 2.43 times better than the wima, if you know what I mean.

-West

[jules]

West,

if you're still in the planning stage, you can allow whatever space you need so you should be able to fit a Solen/Relcap/other sim. without trouble. If you're ordering one of those hugely expensive TDKs from Michael P. you could simply add a set of caps to that order. You won't be saving anything after postage is added by going for a group buy and it really doesn't look as though there's going to be the numbers to get a significant cut. These caps aren't all that expensive to start with!

It could be hard to get an early response from other testers on this one as these caps do take time to break in [I thought only BGs did this till I found something similar with the Platinum C1s].

On your earlier question ... maybe the answer should be platinum for this thread but ordinary steel is the tried and true material and it's got a lot going for it. Of course, if you put things in separate boxes as kyrill has, you do away with the magnetic interference problem so you can use wood [with RFI shielding] and wood is good  . Check the gallery, there's some great designs. the main thing seems to be to put the transformers in their own compartment.

jules

[gerado]

Re Bypass/shunt resistors on stepped attenuators,

where does the resistor actually go from-> to on the GK-1 basic  non switching version , if I already have a cheapie attenuator .
Is it worth adding this mod to the mix.

Theo

[whubbard]

Jules,

I would have just gotten them from Michael, but I too am going to wait and see if its worth getting the Solens. Also, it is possible that with the group buy we will save around 20% which is worth it to me. The other advantage of the group buy is that I will be able to give people matched groups of 4. For my Gk-1 there is a chance I will still go for two boxes (as my amps will be), but I'm just not sure at this point. I'm just going to do my best to make the GK-1 and the Lifeforces as top notch as possible!

Ron has informed me that he will try and have something for us soon.

-West

[kyrill]

Sale is over..

[AKSA]

Ratz............

Hugh

[RonR]

AAARGGHH!

I spent half of my lunch hour today typing in the preliminary report on Wima Vs Solen, then lost it all when the browser crashed!
So here's a quick and dirty version:

WIMAs are good.

Solens are better by approximately 30% IMHO. (Better separation of instruments, lower bass, more natural sounding)

I still need to try out the Sonicap 20uF against the Solens, probably in the next week or so.

Cheers,

Ron.

Note to self: NEVER use a Beta version of ANYTHING to do something you don't want to lose!

[AKSA]

Hi Ron,

Many thanks......  nothing like bleeding edge, blood on the modem, I've seen this a few times....

I'm still bowled over by the diffierence this superficially trivial cap gives, I really am.  Clearly the issue is noise, in which case a lower noise transistor for the current source might be better.  2N4402, a low noise general purpose PNP rated to 40V, comes to mind.

If only there were small Solens.  I have a 39uF SCR sold by Angela in the US which is rated to 630V.  It is fully 65mm long (2 1/2") and 44mm diameter (1 3/4") - a freakin' monster, not suitable for this task.

I would imagine this cap is dangling below the GK1 pcb, like a lifeboat on a liner, it must look rather odd.  I just wonder if there are ANY metallised polyprop caps rated to say 50V, they would be far smaller and more manageable.  I know Philips made solid block polyesters to 100V, but they would be too large as well.  It seems there is NO free lunch!

Thanks for posting Ron, how are the VSonics coming along?

Cheers,

Hugh

[TimS]

AAARGGHH!

I spent half of my lunch hour today typing in the preliminary report on Wima Vs Solen, then lost it all when the browser crashed!
So here's a quick and dirty version:

WIMAs are good.

Solens are better by approximately 30% IMHO. (Better separation of instruments, lower bass, more natural sounding)

I still need to try out the Sonicap 20uF against the Solens, probably in the next week or so.

Cheers,

Ron.

Note to self: NEVER use a Beta version of ANYTHING to do something you don't want to lose!

Hi Ron, thanks for your time in evaluating these caps.  Comparing the Platinum Sonicap upgrade (for C1 & C19) that was done recently to this upgrade (using the Solens), how would you rate the improvement in sound between the two.  The Platinums providing more of a difference or not?

cheers

Tim

[LM]

TKD and Solens upgrade.

As I mentioned on the attenuator thread, I received a 10KOhm TKD from Michael Percy this week together with some Solens Caps as I thought I might as well get one package and only have the GK1 down for just a single upgrade.  Had it all back together last night but with only time for a quick check.  Trouble is I don’t know which component contributed exactly what change to the sound so I can only comment on the package as a whole.

My GK1 is a basic model only.  Stock standard except for Platinum input caps prior to this upgrade.  I run a separate external phono stage and have installed a second set of RCA inputs and a switch to allow vinyl/CD source selection.

Yes I know that after fit-out that I should have set the system up on repeat and left any listening (let alone critical) for a 100 hours or so but there was simply no way that I could not sneak a listen today.  In any case, I just had to check out the integrity of the new wiring didn’t I?  Well I did have a quick listen straight away and while the detail and clarity were obviously an immediate and large improvement, the soundstage was wide but flat and 2D, the sound very thin, a little strident in the treble and virtually no base at all.  No wonder people say not to listen till things settle a bit.

So this morning, after about 4 hours of leaving the system playing whilst I mainly did other things, Hugh popped by to have a bit of a listen.  We sat down with a variety of LPs and CDs for about 3 hours or so.  The improvement of the base alone over this period was amazing to hear.  From virtually nonexistent on my first listen, to disappointing at when Hugh first arrived to quite reasonable if not fully acceptable by the 7 or 8 hours elapsed when he left.

My initial impression of the upgrade (apart from the general lack of Wellie from the base) was of an improvement in the order of magnitude of that of the original Platinum installation.  The improvement itself was really that of greatly increased refinement and low-level detail.  Cymbals shimmer, voices hang in mid air and attack and decay in particular are superb although it was some hours before this really became evident.  Base itself is greatly improved in tightness; it’s really only the relative volume in the bottom octave that is still lacking at the moment. The hugely appreciated valve warmth of the GK1 remains but in all other respects it seems to totally disappear.

The TKD is certainly a beautiful control.  I’m sure much of the improvement is from it but I can’t see how its resistors would provide as much change during the burn in as the capacitors are probably contributing.  Can’t wait to get up 100 hours or so and report back on how it sounds.  I’m pretty sure the base will get back to what it was before but I did this upgrade on a bit of a punt so can’t be certain it's the perfect answer.  Notwithstanding, it is already a significant upgrade and I am very, very pleased with it.
 

[andyr]

TKD and Solens upgrade.

"but I can’t see how its resistors would provide as much change during the burn in as the capacitors are probably contributing".
 

Laurie, did you install the TKD with its bypassing Vishays or not?

Either way, it seems to me that your comment is a strange one.    Before you installed the TKD, you wouldn't have believed a mere volume control could make so much difference?  (Because it took you so long to be convinced to shell out the money for one!  )

All you need to do is "stand on the shoulders of the giants who have preceeded you" ... Bob Crump did some exhaustive evaluations (as DSK has posted) and:
1. said that the Vishays improve the TKD, and
2. you need 40 days of 24hr burn-in before it reaches the final sound.

Regards,

Andy

[AKSA]

Andy,

Lyn's TKDs are rated at 10K, and as such we did not fit the Vishays as this would have reduced the impedance a little too much.

In my view, the addition of these resistors is appropriate only if you have a 50K or 100K TKD.

Incidentally, I fitted the C4/C7/TKD to Lyn's GK1 yesterday.  The complete job took about four and a half hours.  I found it fiddly, fine work.

Cheers,

Hugh

[LM]

Andy, as Hugh has said, no Vishay’s.  I'm not sure why you think my comment strange; I was simply describing my experiences for those interested.  So to clarify.  I certainly needed no convincing about the benefits of a Stepped Attenuator, I’ve had a wealth of such advice on this forum including Bob Crumps mods.  However, my budget only stretched to getting the best pre made attenuator I could hence the 10KOhm TKD at MP’s current price as discussed at length in the SA thread.  I’m perfectly content to say that with the current budget expended, the stock TKD will just have to do for the foreseeable future.    My earlier comment that you quote was to the effect that the changes during burn in were so great I’m sure they must be mainly due to the capacitors and masking any burn in so far with the TKD.  Sorry if my wording seemed confusing.

[LM]

As a quickrep, the TKD attenuator and the 24uF Solens have just passed the 30-hour mark and I’m more pleased than ever.  I think I said at 20 hrs that I believed that the system was approaching a really mature overall sound now with simply amazing detail.  I was right about the detail but perhaps a little early on the maturity claim.  It’s really quite fascinating how the sound is still changing subtly over time during the burning in process and I can see why hundreds rather than tens of hours are recommended.  For a short period the base was almost too much and the treble became a little laid back but as of last thing last night, the frequency balance was excellent, the soundstage had really opened out and imaging is quite 3D including some now in front of the speakers.

Of particular note, the base is much better than before and it was always good following the Soraya upgrade.  Really clean, tight and tuneful.  I remember reading somewhere a while back that getting the base right in a system is actually more important than most people think.  That incorrect harmonics generated from impure or phase shifted base notes can confuse and muddy the higher frequencies.  I have no clue if this is really true but it seems to make sense and the lovely base is really underpinning and driving the music and letting the equally clean and detailed mids and treble shine.

I believe that Hugh must have the basic GK1 circuit spot on for such simple component change mods to bring out such great improvements.  A lesser circuit could not have benefited so much I’m sure.

Theo came around and had a listen last night and I’m pretty sure he was reasonably impressed with the sonic changes.  He already has a stepped attenuator in his GK1 but as to whether he will do the Solens (or some other cap from RonR's experiments) upgrade, only he can say.  Thanks again Philip for drawing this cap change to our attention.

[gerado]

Another fine night at Lyn's.

Spent a little over 2 and a half hours listening, and towards the end just kept putting off departure time- always a good sign!

The last 30 to 40 minutes I wondered if I was imagining or actually hearing changes as they were developing.
My initial impression - striking base , too big almost but very  clean , fast and very musical. Top end was not a step forward(however I do like my sound a little bright), but that changed dramatically towards the end of the night and that special balance Lyns system always impressed me with was back and better than I recall from previous sessions.

Im still somewhat confused if burn in changes can take place and be noticeable in such a short space of time, but the system when I left was not the same system as when I arrived.
I tried to find other explanations but there were no new adjustments to the system. It got later in the night(and I always find that most systems sound better the further into the night one gets?Power grid noise). Quality variations of recordings were more evident also.

Overall the solens and the attenuator combination is a significant step forward which becomes more apparent with extended listening. There was more of everything in just about the right doses, but in particular the base is superb, on tap when the music calls for it and not dominating. The top end clarity, punch and realism as they should be. The music reaches out to you more and you feel part  of it.

As to what Im doing- what ever the group buy decides. Im going to end up with 2 systems the way its panning out.. The "Hughie" for relaxation , savoring and really enjoying the finer aspects of music and the "Head Banger"  a grand scale system for its wow factor because I like that too but cant listen to it very long.

[LM]

Sounds like we pretty much agree about what we heard so thanks Theo, always welcome.  Incidently, warming up was not a reason for any change as I had been playing the system for nearly 2 hours prior to your arrival.