Integrated Amp suggestions

mizzuno · « **on:** 14 Mar 2007, 07:12 pm »

Hello All,

I had previously solicited advice for a pair of speakers for my father, and all of your advice was much appreciated, I ended up buying a pair of Fried studio 7's.Great pair of speakers but unfortunately its paired up with an old receiver (Nakamichi ta-2a..gasp). I would like to once again solicit your advice for an appropriate integrated amplifier for said speakers. They are 90 db,and 4 ohm transmission line speakers. The room is relatively large with 23 foot ceilings. This purchase is intended for his birthday which is in July so I have some time. As for my budget, I would like to stay under $2000 but considering I made a similar statement with regards to the speakers (I believe $1500 was my budget for speakers...ended up costing $3500), I am somewhat flexible...thanks in advance...

Michael

PhilNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 07:29 pm »

Any other specific requirements? Remote control, tubed vs solid state vs. other, etc?

mizzuno · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 07:37 pm »

A remote would be nice, and tubes would be a nicety not a necessity, although the first thing he said when he unwrapped the speakers was that he would love tube monoblocs...........

macrojack · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 07:38 pm »

Michael,
That Nak receiver might be better than you think. But if you are going to replace it, I would ask how much you want and would ask how many inputs your dad needs and how loud he plays his music.

The Red Wine Audio Sig 30 is utterly spectacular sounding and very user friendly. It has sufficient power for your speakers but has only one input. Vinnie offers a switch box to go with it which then provides 4 inputs and a mute position. Remote volume control is an option.

Please check out the RWA circle for numerous endorsements by fellow ACers and the RWA site.

http://www.redwineaudio.com/

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=78.0

mizzuno · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 07:55 pm »

macro,

I've heard that the stasis amplifier on the nak isn't bad, although it gets flaky into lower impedences, but i agree its not such a bad unit considering, which is what made me think of using it as a preamp and maybe putting money into separate amps, ah decisions decisions..

I would like something that melds well with the transmission line bass which makes me think tubes may not be a good solution?(i'll let people with more knowledge than me answer that one).

As usual I can count on you guys for a prompt response..thanks again.

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 08:09 pm »

I'd avoid tube based power amps as their bass (especially deep bass from those Fried transmission lines) can get flabby and in a large room you'll need more power. And typically tubes prefer high impedance loads (above 8 ohms). Note that the difference in volume between 80 and 110 watts per channel (wpc) is barely discernable. With that said here's a couple of "local" suggestions:

Audio by Van Alstine, a 90 wpc (at 8 ohms): http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/control_amplifier/index.htm

Frank is very frank and will answer all your questions or doubts. He is a no nonsense kind of guy and so is his stuff.

Nuforce, a 100 wpc (at 8 ohms):
http://www.nuforce.com/products-intamps.htm

This is a digital and different from typical solid state.

Odyssey Cyclops, 110 wpc (at 8 ohms):
http://www.odysseyaudiomx.com/electronicos.htm

Klaus offers 20 year warrantees and extremely high value.

And here are a couple more ideas:

Unison Research Unico Integrated, 80 wpc (8 ohms):
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/unisonresearch/unico.html

The link says it all, very nice product from a couple of years ago, and can be modded.

Portal Panache, 100 wpc (8 ohms):
http://www.onhifi.com/product/portal_panache.htm

Just another option, I'm sure others will have more.

Toka · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 08:15 pm »

I'll second both the Van Alstine and Red Wine suggestions...top-class gear made by top-class people.

boead · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 08:36 pm »

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Titan.htm

Rogue Audio Titan Series
I almost bought the Cronus. EL-34’s, 12AU7 and 12AX7’s in a phono section – NICE! Also has a tubed headphone section. Oh and it comes with a remote!
MSRP is $1795

mizzuno · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 08:46 pm »

So is it de facto that tube based amplifiers would not do justice to these speakers, are there any tube amplifiers that would be a good match for transmission lines or is it more less a deficiency that is inherent in tube amplification in general, if that is so how about a hybrid of some sort? Maybe a tube based front end like...something like this http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/calaf.htm, anyway your opinions will surely help me forward in my selection...

griller · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 10:26 pm »

I've heard many good things about the Dussan V8i. It appears to be a beast and from the comments and reviews might be one to consider:

http://www.aaa-audio.com/index-products-dussun.htm

JLM · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 11:36 pm »

The Unico Integrated I mentioned above has a tube pre-amp section and solid state power amp section. The smaller Unico P (50 wpc vs 80 wpc) is only $1200.

nodiak · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Mar 2007, 11:55 pm »

I would contact Fried, maybe they have info on what other Studio 7 owners use for amps in similar rooms, playing similar music, etc..
In a large room I'm sure those speakers (which I've ogled for months, congratulations!) would love to have a healthy amount of power to really fill up the space, maybe 100 watts +.
If you went with seperates a high gain pre would allow a lower powered amp, and could go SS amp (tighter bass) with tube pre (flavor, spaciousness). I've tried 50 watt gainclone with several tube pres and found a pretty wide range of "sound" from the variety of pres. I think this is a good way to dial in a system, get the amp and try pre's till you find a good mate.
Just another way to go.
Good luck! Don

mizzuno · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 12:48 am »

Thanks don, fortunately for my dad and unfortunately for me its in his living room so he will be the one enjoying it, but I think the tube pre, ss amp combo might be the ticket...the more i think about it...

WEEZ · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 01:13 am »

Good suggestions here so far. Here's another:

www.bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=3175

WEEZ

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 01:43 am »

I may sound like a broken record, but I have yet to hear an integrated that is more satisfying musically than the Naim Nait 5i. It's performance is staggering at the price IMO.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 02:30 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71 on 15 Mar 2007, 01:43 am

I may sound like a broken record, but I have yet to hear an integrated that is more satisfying musically than the Naim Nait 5i. It's performance is staggering at the price IMO.

I think the 5i would be an excellent sonic match to the Fried. Why do I think that most TL are musical and accurate, yet a tad warm sounding. The Naim prat will make it bounce, I am sure.

boead · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 03:55 am »

Quote from: mizzuno on 14 Mar 2007, 08:46 pm

So is it de facto that tube based amplifiers would not do justice to these speakers, are there any tube amplifiers that would be a good match for transmission lines or is it more less a deficiency that is inherent in tube amplification in general, if that is so how about a hybrid of some sort? Maybe a tube based front end like...something like this http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/calaf.htm, anyway your opinions will surely help me forward in my selection...

I don’t agree with that.

My buddy has two pairs of Alon speakers, both horribly inefficient (86db), partial OB’s.

He drives them with a 45wpc trilinear amp (KT88’s) and has owned a 200wpc Conrad Johnson and auditioned a half dozen SS and tube amps. The 45wpc KT88 amp is BT FAR the best sounding of them all. Tremendous, abundant and tight bass, alluring midrange and the absolute best sound stage. Of all the amps he’s auditioned at home costing several thousand dollars a sub $2000 tube amp out performed them all easily.

I haven’t heard a SS amp yet that I like much but then again I stay away form listing to $5000 Krells, its bad for my health and wallet.

Read reviews on the Rogue Audio stuff, people really like their stuff. Nice little company that’s been around for some time and have a dedicated audience. Certainly a big bang for the buck.

The Cronus is 55 wps with both 4 and 8 ohm taps and its small profile still weighs in at a solid 50 lbs. Rogue uses nice Iron.

The Rogue Tempest uses KT88’s, 6SN7’s and is rated at 90wpc. Lost of options and upgrades, starts at $2700.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Tempest.htm

mizzuno · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 04:57 am »

Quote from: boead on 15 Mar 2007, 03:55 am

Quote from: mizzuno on 14 Mar 2007, 08:46 pm
So is it de facto that tube based amplifiers would not do justice to these speakers, are there any tube amplifiers that would be a good match for transmission lines or is it more less a deficiency that is inherent in tube amplification in general, if that is so how about a hybrid of some sort? Maybe a tube based front end like...something like this http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/calaf.htm, anyway your opinions will surely help me forward in my selection...

I don’t agree with that.

My buddy has two pairs of Alon speakers, both horribly inefficient (86db), partial OB’s.

He drives them with a 45wpc trilinear amp (KT88’s) and has owned a 200wpc Conrad Johnson and auditioned a half dozen SS and tube amps. The 45wpc KT88 amp is BT FAR the best sounding of them all. Tremendous, abundant and tight bass, alluring midrange and the absolute best sound stage. Of all the amps he’s auditioned at home costing several thousand dollars a sub $2000 tube amp out performed them all easily.

I haven’t heard a SS amp yet that I like much but then again I stay away form listing to $5000 Krells, its bad for my health and wallet.

Read reviews on the Rogue Audio stuff, people really like their stuff. Nice little company that’s been around for some time and have a dedicated audience. Certainly a big bang for the buck.

The Cronus is 55 wps with both 4 and 8 ohm taps and its small profile still weighs in at a solid 50 lbs. Rogue uses nice Iron.

The Rogue Tempest uses KT88’s, 6SN7’s and is rated at 90wpc. Lost of options and upgrades, starts at $2700.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Tempest.htm

Your position is duly noted

and good news because I want to keep my options open. The Rogue audio amplifiers look really nice as long as they are good at taming the lower frequencies which is what my primary concern is when it comes to tubes. Thanks for the input.

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 10:38 am »

another 2 cents:

Hard to tell how much power Dad will need. As tubes clip (distort) more softly (easier on ears and speaker voice coils) than most solid state you could get by with lower power ratings on tube power amps. Just keep in mind that power must increase ten fold to double the loudness heard, so there is very little difference between 30 wpc and 100 wpc. On the other hand the amp should be sized to provide a firm grip on the speakers even at peak sound pressure levels, which can take a surprisely large amount of power.

Battery powered stuff, like the Red Wine Audio products, typically use sealed lead acid batteries that don't take well to being fully discharged (they lose much if not all their power holding capacity). If your Dad is apt to falling asleep while listening or just being forgetful, depending on batteries would be worrisome if not a pain in the arse.

Tubes need time (like 30 minutes) to warm up in order to sound their best. Their sound changes as they age and of course they eventually burn out (and although the average pre-amp tube lasts much longer, its not uncommon to replace power amp tubes every 6 - 12 months depending on the amount of use). On the other hand tubes (and vinyl) make audio into much more of (an interactive) hobby.

Devoted audiophiles would laugh off the battery and tube considerations, but as I age they become more important to me and maybe for your Dad too.

kallitype · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Mar 2007, 04:57 pm »

I vote for the Response Audio modded integrated Jolida or Antique Sound Lab amps, the ASL1003 Bill put together had 30 watts, more than enough for Snell C's (But a bit shy for my Magnepans, so it went to Steve) and I must say it was a statement amp----ultra clean and with high resolution , but wet-around-the-mouth lush and lifelike. When I fired it up after burning it in, the wife said "There's nothing between you and the music". Most lifelike amp I've heard in 50 years of audiofooling. I've not heard his modded Jolidas, but I can vouch for his honesty and integrity and wouldn't hesitate to take his advice. You can get a hot-rodded Jolida for less than 2K, it would be your last amp----his stuff is that good. If I did not have a need for >100 watts, the ASL would have to be pried from my cold dead fingers, as the NRA cats say.