[Jim N.]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a new car at the end of the month. My 1995 Camry with 155,000 miles on it needs more and more work. Looking for something smaller as I am single/childfree. I live in the 'burbs of L.A. and do the "Westside Creep" 5 days a week. Average about 13,000 miles a year and I'm a pretty big guy with broad shoulders. I don't fully trust the longevity of hybrid design (how often does the battery unit need to be replaced and what does it cost?) plus California has apparently issued all of the HOV lane permits for Hybrids and they'll be the first to get denied access if the HOV lanes become congested.

The Civic Coupe EX is cheaper to own over the life of the car than the Scion TC. The EX is the only Civic with the 60/40 fold down seat while the TC is a hatchback with fold down rear seats. Equipped the way I want them they are within a few hundred MSRP. Scion is supposed to be a "no haggle" line like Saturn.

I'm too F'ing old to be part of the F&F crowd so I won't be modding/tweaking the car. Unlike audio, I like my cars stock  and having an arthritic left knee I don't want to deal with a stick in traffic so it's AT.

The Civic line is well established and the 2006 redesign has been applauded. The 2007 dash is kind of cool with the speedometer / temp gauge / fuel gauge on the top of it. The 30/40 EPA rating is great. I have owned Toyotas for the past 20 years but have not dealt with their Scion line so I have no experience with them but I like the flexibility of a hatchback and the nearly all glass roof is kind of neat.

I just wonder if anyone owns a new Civic Coupe or a Scion TC and is willing to share their impressions and opinions of them.

[jon_010101]

The TC is an aging design compared to the Civic EX.  Plus, the Civic will get much better gas mileage.  I'm not a Honda man by any measure, but I'd definitely go for the Civic in this case.   

[Parnelli777]

No brainer here. The Civic EX. Just bought an EX sedan myself, and it's very nice indeed. Averaging 31 mpg, 60% highway, 40% city, and that's with only 900 miles on the odo. It'll probably get better. Toyota has nothing comparable, in my view.

I think the sedan looks better than the coupe, but just my $.02.

[JLM]

The TC uses a Camry engine, which should be plenty but when I drove a manual I found three "issues":

1.  It didn't act sporty (reviewers have said the same)

2.  I didn't like to high windown sills (felt like a gangsta)

3.  I didn't like the long door (in tight settings you'd end up crawling out backwards, I'm getting to be an old fart).

I've owned two Camry's, but the last two versions are too big for my taste and come across to me as Japanese Buicks.


But I'm not so sure the Civic is clearly better.  Check insurance rates (the sedan is probably cheaper, easier to get in and out of, and looks/acts/is the same as the coupe).  Around here a Civic EX is the same price as an Accord VP (that has auto, air, power windows/doors/mirrors, AM/FM/CD and is currently seeing a bit extra discounting at the end of the current version run).  Cost to buy and own the two are about the same, but my guess is the Accord would hold up better.

[Woodsea]

The last time I went shopping in your category of autos I ended up with the Jetta.
The Honda was loud, Toyota underpowered.  I bought refurbished

[jon_010101]

The last time I went shopping in your category of autos I ended up with the Jetta.
The Honda was loud, Toyota underpowered.  I bought refurbished

Nice -- the new Rabbit and Jetta are really nice cars that I'd personally pick over a Civic ... although the gas mileage can't match the Honda. 

Another consideration in this category is the Mazda3... the 3i gets excellent gas mileage, and the 3S is a blast to drive.  My dad contemplated a Scion TC (had owned Celicas since the late 80s) ... but vastly preferred the Mazda after test-driving them.

[Woodsea]

For drivers the BMW is the bomb, next comes VW.  I have never owned porsche, but I have had audi's, toyota's (it is a landcruiser, best vehicle I have ever owned), acura.
If you get a new car, it will have a warranty.  I always figure in the fun factor.  My Landcruiser went over everything and well in Mongolia.  My Jetta sped around corners and put a smile on my face everytime I got behind the wheel.  The Acura was quite capable, but did not have the oomph factor that put the silly grin on ones face. 
Just my 2 cents

[Jim N.]

Thanks for all the input!

VW's surprisingly don't score very well on the Initial Quality and Reliability ratings. At this point in my life, fun to drive is a secondary concern. Ahhh, if I were 21 again though...

The Mazda 3 has good reviews. Lack of selection of dealerships in my area makes it difficult to buy and maintain. I had considered Hyundai but the local dealership went Power and then pffffttttt in the past few years. The nearest one now is 7 miles away. I do check dealerships BBB rating before visiting them.

I am looking to downsize my vehicle and investment. I have a bad feeling about gasoline prices in the near future and want to have $$$ available for my audio addiction  . The Civic has excellent crash test ratings. The drawback to the diminutive size is feeling like a ping pong ball to the SUV's paddles on the freeway.

Point taken on the Accord vs Civic. Not much difference in price between the basic Accord and the tweaked Civic. Parking lot at work is a nightmare, tight squeezes abound and the smaller car will help. My 79 year old mother has an 2002 Accord Coupe EX V6 and that is a sweet car. I just prefer a coupe to a sedan.

Been pretty happy with my last two Toyotas (pickup 1987-1994 stolen with 122,000 miles and the Camry 1994-now 155,000 miles) but nothing in their line interests me outside of the Scion. The new Camrys have had initial quality issues and, as another had said, are big. I do like the softer ride of my Camry but don't want the size, additional cost, etc. Don't care for the Corolla at all.

[JLM]

You could look at a Toyota Corolla:  4 doors for easy access, narrow for easy parking, good mileage, and very reliable.  The design will be replaced soon, but keeps prices down a bit, and it looks like you keep them for a while so whatever you buy will be replaced eventually anyway.  I rented one for a month while my ride was in the shop.  Lots of headroom, engine was buzzy under highway merging, and depending on your build/posture the steering wheel may seem too far away.

Check out Edmunds.com too.

[rosconey]

my 06 corolla gets about 40 mpg highway-35 plus with half and half driving-
plenty of ooomph,very comphy on the long rides back from work-16,000 so far no problems-knock on wood-

and its easier to get in and out of than the new honda's-they sit low

[Jim N.]

Thanks again for the info, guys! I really appreciate it!

I use Edmunds.com often for research. Great site, very helpful, loaded with good info. I also subscribe to Consumer Reports.

Thanks for the feedback on the Corollas.

I should be getting this done by the end of the month. Will report back on my impressions.

[JLM]

I'm hoping that the new Corolla will bridge some gaps in the Toyota line-up:

1.  A 2.0 liter engine (the 1989 Camry I owned had a 2.0 L DOHC and it was very smooth and returned 35 mpg with a 5M transmission);

2.  Design a car for us babyboomer (that don't want something the size of a Buick);

3.  Keep the tall/narrow style of the present Corolla;

4.  Already I can't tell the difference between the Yaris sedan and the Camry, I'd give up if the Corolla is sized in-between.

Frankly I wouldn't mind buying another 1989 Camry if they re-introduced it.  (I paid $11,000 for a base model that had air, 5M tranny, and AM/FM.)  It was probably the best car I've ever owned. 

[boead]

About a month ago I put down a deposit and ordered an 07 Civic EX, black on black. It was going to take a couple of weeks to get it.

A few days later I found a 2004 Acura RSX with 17k miles on it. For $17,000 I got it as a Certified Acura vehicle with a 7year/100k mile bumper to bumper warranty (that was an option). The car is black with black leather interior, hatchback with fold down rear seats. 160HP Vtec motor, 5 speed auto with electronic shifting. It drove MUCH nicer then the Civic, tighter and quieter. The seats are more comfortable and the interior nicer. Overall it’s a nicer car and it was $2500 cheaper then the new Civic EX and has a much longer warranty. Besides the dealership is top notch. They sell Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. The Honda healer treated me like some shmow and I was LUCKY to be buying a Honda. The Acura dealer treated like a celebrity and would have likely given me a happy ending if I asked for one.

The RSX was discontinued in 2006, not may around to begin with. I don’t see them littering the highway which I like.

After driving it for a couple of weeks, it’s getting about 29 to 31 mpg commuting to work and back.

[Jim N.]

I owned a 1995 Camry LE. It was an outstanding, boring car.

That's what I am still driving, except it's the coupe version, until the end of this month .

[boead]

The 2007 dash is kind of cool with the speedometer / temp gauge / fuel gauge on the top of it. The 30/40 EPA rating is great. I have owned Toyotas for the past 20 years but have not dealt with their Scion line so I have no experience with them but I like the flexibility of a hatchback and the nearly all glass roof is kind of neat.

After reading lots on the Honda forums, the overwhelming comment was that the 30/40 rating on the Civic was WAY over estimated. Most are getting 28 to 34. Its become well documented and some groups are insisting Honda re-evaluate their rating system or possibly face class action suites. Same for their Hybrid that’s pulling real world numbers about 10 mpg less then advertised.

I didn’t like the Honda dash, it almost kept me from ordering the car. Its very cheap looking, the entire interior reeks of plastic. The Acura isn’t that much better but its definitely a couple of notches nicer and has a simple and clean look.
The new Acura TSX (started production in 2006) is the European/Japanese Accord. Right now it’s just a sedan. It starts at about $27k and is quite nice. I didn’t want a sedan and the RSX gets better gas mileage. Remember that the Accord as you know it, is an North American only car. Its also made in the USA as well as the Civic and all the other Hondas sold in the USA. The Acura RSX and TSX are made in Japan. The Acura RSX is sold outside North American as a Honda Integra Type-R and Type-S and was last made in 2007.


BTW: My last car was a 93 Mercedes E300 which I still own and might sell. Its got 195k miles on it and going strong, its just costly to repair and only gets about 20mpg or less now.

[mfsoa]

Honda re-evaluate their rating system

It's not the automaker that sets the rating, it's the EPA. Toyata is famous for denying that thier hybrid won't make it's EPA rating, and they should be commended for their honesty (or desire to prevent lawsuits, I guess).

EPA is changing the way they rate the MPG, and the rating will drop like 10-15% or something like that.

I think that some of the large sedans get really good highway numbers by adjusting the shift points so the cars stay in ultra-cruise gear for the well defined EPA cycle. But driven in the real world they get nowhere near the EPA.

[Jim N.]

I had heard about the actual Civic MPG being lower than the estimates. My old Camry gets around 26-27 MPG in my driving pattern.

The local Acura dealer has a Certified used 2006 RSX with 9K miles for a little under 22K. Just not in a position to buy yet. If it's still there at the end of this month I may check it out.

[Levi]

A friend has a 2006 model civic.  He has it for almost a year now.  No problems.

He also have the Nav and voice command. 

You cannot go wrong with either a Scion or the new Civic.  The new Corolla is not too bad either.  Lot of cars to choose in that category.  Have fun doing the search.

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a new car at the end of the month. My 1995 Camry with 155,000 miles on it needs more and more work. Looking for something smaller as I am single/childfree. I live in the 'burbs of L.A. and do the "Westside Creep" 5 days a week. Average about 13,000 miles a year and I'm a pretty big guy with broad shoulders. I don't fully trust the longevity of hybrid design (how often does the battery unit need to be replaced and what does it cost?) plus California has apparently issued all of the HOV lane permits for Hybrids and they'll be the first to get denied access if the HOV lanes become congested.

The Civic Coupe EX is cheaper to own over the life of the car than the Scion TC. The EX is the only Civic with the 60/40 fold down seat while the TC is a hatchback with fold down rear seats. Equipped the way I want them they are within a few hundred MSRP. Scion is supposed to be a "no haggle" line like Saturn.

I'm too F'ing old to be part of the F&F crowd so I won't be modding/tweaking the car. Unlike audio, I like my cars stock  and having an arthritic left knee I don't want to deal with a stick in traffic so it's AT.

The Civic line is well established and the 2006 redesign has been applauded. The 2007 dash is kind of cool with the speedometer / temp gauge / fuel gauge on the top of it. The 30/40 EPA rating is great. I have owned Toyotas for the past 20 years but have not dealt with their Scion line so I have no experience with them but I like the flexibility of a hatchback and the nearly all glass roof is kind of neat.

I just wonder if anyone owns a new Civic Coupe or a Scion TC and is willing to share their impressions and opinions of them.

[ctviggen]

My car gets better gas mileage than the EPA estimates, but I don't think many do.  I hope the new EPA estimates are better suited to real-world conditions, as I intend to make good gias mileage be a priority for my next car.