Upgrade Path suggestions (tube preamp/amp)

kendrid · « **on:** 17 Jul 2003, 10:47 pm »

I am looking to get tubes into my system, as I love the tube sound.

My system currently consists of:
ACI Sapphire (new version which is 86db efficient)
SVS 25-31 sub
NAD T762 receiver (true 100w x 5). Input impedance of 50K ohms.
Rotel 1070 amp
(cough) sony 400 disc (cough) using NAD DACs (I had a Rotel and just sold it, so I am stuck with this for now).

I am selling my Rotel 1070 because I can't tell the difference between it and my NAD. I have about $800, so this is a budget upgrade

Previously I had the Sapphire III which I have heard with a Jolida 302b integrated tube amp (40w x 2). I loved the sound of the tube amp vs my Rotel amp.

I am debating if an amp like the 302b or ASL Wave 20s would have the power to run the new Sapphire, or if I should go with a tube preamp and use my NAD's amps. I do not listen at high volumes, and I usually listen to 'softer' music (acoustic, vocal, etc). I really want to get tubes into my system, but I am not sure which way is the best for me.

I will be upgrading the CD player soon after. The internal DACs of the NAD are really surprisingly good so I might consider a transport if I use the NAD as a preamp.

It seems I have 3 options:
-tube preamp with NAD SS amp
-Integrated tube pre/amp (Jolida 302b or similar)
-NAD SS preamp with tube amp

The preamps I am considering are the Rogue 66 Magnum, LLC-P, or if I go cheaper the YS Symphonies ($400 with an impedance of 2K ohms).
For amps the only things I have run across in my range are the Wave 20s or an integrated like the Jolida.

Opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Jul 2003, 11:00 pm »

What does the impedance look like for your speakers? If less than 8ohms, you'll need a pretty stout tube amp to drive it (and considering the low efficiency, you're talking expensive). I'd go w/ a tubed preamp if you want to get tubes in your system. What is your budget?

Sa-dono · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Jul 2003, 11:08 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

I'd go w/ a tubed preamp if you want to get tubes in your system. What is your budget?

He said, "I have about $800, so this is a budget upgrade

"

I agree with Tyson that a tubed preamp is probably the best bet. From my limited tube experience/knowledge, the Rogue 66 should be good, or for a bit less, maybe the Wright WLA-12A.

MaxCast · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 12:17 am »

Do you use your receiver for HT? If not, sell it and consider an integrated or pre+amp/s. You will have to make sure your pre (what ever it is) has dual outs to use your sub.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 12:47 am »

When I demo'd the Rogue 66 last year I ended up not liking it. It was pretty noisy and very microphonic, which drove me crazy. Perhaps it was just the unit I had. Also, I found it did have a very distinct sound of its own and in the end wasn't as transparent as I wanted. I would take Gary Dodd up on his demo offer (for the preamp). For the cost of shipping you can try before you buy which is always nice, and see how it works with your other gear. See the GR Research forum for info.

kendrid · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 01:49 am »

Thanks for the quick replies!

I do use my NAD for home theater. I now wish I would have spent less on the receiver so I could spend more on my two channel setup. The NAD does sound very good for music (on par with Rotel).

I believe the Sapphires do drop to 6 ohms. I have to check the manual. If the 6 ohm load is below 80hz, I could be ok since I could use my sub. I will check with Mike D from ACI to see. FYI: I often have to listen at night so I can't go above 70db for fear of waking the wife or baby. If I ever want to play loud I can just use my NAD amp.

I just looked into the Dodd ($450 model). That is very cheap for a new unit. I see that he also has a unit with HT bypass, which would make my setup a bit easier to use. Since one is out 'on loan' right now, I might wait to see what that user thinks of it. I am not in hurry.

I have read quite a bit about the IRD LLC-P/Purist on this site. It seems to be well liked, and $665 isn't bad. According to their website they have just released version 1.01 (free upgrade for current owners).
If the Dodd is in the same quailty range I could use the extra money for my CD upgrade.

I had mentioned the YS Symphonies in my first post. I have read on the asylum that few people have purchased this ($400 shipped) and upgraded the caps and end up with a very good pre. I'd probably rather go with a 'good out of the box' pre, but I am not scared to tweak.

More opinions are always welcome!

Hantra · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 02:12 am »

K:

Since you mentioned the Jolida, I will share my experience. The Jolida is a great amp. I had the 50 watt version. It is a very nice, and smooth amp. A great foray into tubes without going with both feet.

The only problem I had with it is that it would run out of gas on me. Anytime I would play a complex, and loud passage, like Adagio for Strings, it would run out to the point where I knew it had no more to give.

This had nothing to do with the wattage. I have heard 300 watt amps that did this. I also replaced the Jolida with an 18 watt Audio Note, and it never ran out. Ever. . . It's something in the build I guess. . .

Great piece for the money. .

B

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 02:37 am »

$800 for a new tubed preamp? Thats an easy one:

http://www.boldercables.com/Store.asp?m=TheBolderCableCompany&n=10&k=115401&s=Radii+Audio+Tube+Electronics

I've heard this unit many times at Jason's at it really is outstanding for the money.

hmen · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 05:11 am »

You should start with a tueb preamp. 86db speakers make it kind of difficult to find a sufficiently powerful tube amp on your budget. I haven't heard the Radii but it sounds like a good deal and a lot of people like it. I found out through experience that a good pre can really make a system and a good way to start on the path to tubes is with a good Class A (no feedback) pre. Rogue uses negative feedback.

With your speakers you probably shouldn't look for an SET pre but there are couple of good ones on the market for about $1000 (Decware, AES/Cary) or cheper on audiogon. NorH also is coming out with a couple of new tube amps and pres. They're probably worth a look. Good luck.

byteme · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 07:52 pm »

I'm a very big fan of this preamp. With NOS Tung Sol 396a tubes it's wonderful! And a lot less than $800...

http://www.phillyaudio.com/preamp_7b.html

kendrid · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 07:54 pm »

Quote from: byteme

I'm a very big fan of this preamp. With NOS Tung Sol 396a tubes it's wonderful! And a lot less than $800...

http://www.phillyaudio.com/preamp_7b.html

I have seen this one and read good things about it. It is definetly on my list.

I do have one concern about it. In a review the follolwing was stated:
"I wanted to leave it on all night last night and at one step I couldn't hear the music from 5 feet away but at the next highest step I could hear it from upstairs in the bedroom"

Since I do a lot of late night listening, I need to be able to accurately control the volume. I could change the volume control if I like the unit, if it isn't difficult to do.

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 08:55 pm »

if i were in the market, i would *absolutely* check out the dodd audio gear. if it's much better than melos gear, it is a good deal at many times the price. if i were looking for <$1k, i would find a melos sha-gold-r. killer sound, quite flexible, & remote for balance & wolume...

doug s.