Single Driver Audiophiles...

Rick Craig · « **on:** 20 Feb 2007, 06:01 pm »

... we have something superior for you at $495 / pair delivered

Email or PM if you're interested.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 05:58 pm »

The MF7 - dedicated in memory of Maynard Ferguson who was a great musical influence in my earlier years...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=299&pos=39

SET Man · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 06:26 pm »

Hey!

Do you mean this?

A SEAS 2 ways, 2 drivers coaxial speaker with xover?

Take care,
Buddy

Rick Craig · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 07:50 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 21 Mar 2007, 06:26 pm

Hey!

Do you mean this?

A SEAS 2 ways, 2 drivers coaxial speaker with xover?

Take care,
Buddy

You're right about the Seas driver (actually coincident tweeter) Buddy. Coherency plus greater frequency extension and smoother coverage = better sound!

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 08:03 pm »

Ah yes. Remember the song "Give it One"?

(uhhh, one driver...get it?

)

WEEZ

rajacat · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 08:53 pm »

Not equal to the superior coherency of true single driver speakers.

Raj

Cacophonix · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 09:21 pm »

Is this something like what madisound has on their website? They are selling the crossover, driver and cabinets separately though.

JoshK · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 21 Mar 2007, 08:53 pm

Not equal to the superior coherency of true single driver speakers.

Raj

And you know because you tried?

opnly bafld · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 10:04 pm »

Quote from: Cacophonix on 21 Mar 2007, 09:21 pm

Is this something like what madisound has on their website? They are selling the crossover, driver and cabinets separately though.

My guess would be that Rick designed his own crossover.

I think it should be a very fine sounding speaker, the only problem for some of us single-driver guys is our loooooooow power tube amps probably will not get the job done, if you know what I mean.

Lin

konut · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 11:18 pm »

What frequency is the XO for this speaker?

SET Man · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 21 Mar 2007, 08:53 pm

Not equal to the superior coherency of true single driver speakers.

Raj

Quote from: opnly bafld on 21 Mar 2007, 10:04 pm

Quote from: Cacophonix on 21 Mar 2007, 09:21 pm
Is this something like what madisound has on their website? They are selling the crossover, driver and cabinets separately though.

My guess would be that Rick designed his own crossover.

I think it should be a very fine sounding speaker, the only problem for some of us single-driver guys is our loooooooow power tube amps probably will not get the job done, if you know what I mean.

Lin

Hey!

Well, to be fair. I've heard coaxial speaker that I could live with

So, if done right it could come near the single driver speaker performance and could exceeded in some area... but the last one is debatable.

And I have to agreed with opnly bafld that this is not aimed for people with lower power tube amps.

But for those with more power this look like a pretty good deal for the price. Considering that those drivers aren't cheap by themselves.

So, it is "superior" than Single Driver speaker as Rick said? I don't know never heard it.

Take care,
Buddy

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 11:57 pm »

Single driver speakers by default are active (one channel of power amplification per driver). That is huge in my book. Years ago I compared Paradigm Active 20s ($1600/pair two way standmounts with one channel per driver) versus the nearly identical Studio 20s ($800/pair, typical passive design). No contest.

Frequency response was flatter, dynamics much improved, and sounded like powered subwoofers had been added to the Actives. It was an ephiphany for me. I'll never go back to a passive design again.

Frankly I've heard a few coaxials but have been more taken by many good conventional two-way designs. And like extended range drivers that use whizzer cones, the tweeter/whizzer is riding on the motion of the woofer, thereby artificially adding the woofer signal to the tweeter/whizzer.

A better two way design would use a simple high quality 4 - 5 inch cone driver to cover say 100 Hz and above at high efficiency (for reasonably high spls and good dynamics) with powered subwoofers that are matched to the room. The Feastrex Naturfluxtm D5nf full range driver has a whizzer, but would be a very nice candidate:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0107/diy_loudspeaker_project.htm

Rick Craig · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 02:18 am »

Quote from: WEEZ on 21 Mar 2007, 08:03 pm

Ah yes. Remember the song "Give it One"?

(uhhh, one driver...get it? )

WEEZ

One of my favorite tracks and it will challenge a high school trumpet player's range

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 02:32 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 21 Mar 2007, 11:38 pm

Quote from: rajacat on 21 Mar 2007, 08:53 pm
Not equal to the superior coherency of true single driver speakers.

Raj
Quote from: opnly bafld on 21 Mar 2007, 10:04 pm
Quote from: Cacophonix on 21 Mar 2007, 09:21 pm
Is this something like what madisound has on their website? They are selling the crossover, driver and cabinets separately though.

My guess would be that Rick designed his own crossover.

I think it should be a very fine sounding speaker, the only problem for some of us single-driver guys is our loooooooow power tube amps probably will not get the job done, if you know what I mean.

Lin

Hey!

Well, to be fair. I've heard coaxial speaker that I could live with So, if done right it could come near the single driver speaker performance and could exceeded in some area... but the last one is debatable.

And I have to agreed with opnly bafld that this is not aimed for people with lower power tube amps.

But for those with more power this look like a pretty good deal for the price. Considering that those drivers aren't cheap by themselves.

So, it is "superior" than Single Driver speaker as Rick said? I don't know never heard it.

Take care,
Buddy

I've heard the same coaxial driver speaker that Buddy heard (Jim's Tannoy) and it's far better than any single driver speaker I've personally heard. It has most of the coherency and far more output at the extremes. I can respect the coherency of single drivers, but they are way too limited for me in terms of output and they don't match the type of music I listen to at all. I still think the most neutral and coherent speaker I've personally heard is the original Quad ESL (though this is not ideal for rock music either). If I listened to lots of chamber or vocals, then I'd be all over single drivers.

konut · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 02:48 am »

Both coaxials and single driver designs have their strengths and weaknesses. I've found that the major weakness of the coax is to be found in the XO. Most of this weakness can be mitigated by the use of a line level, weather active or passive, XO , as witnessed by the active Tannoys. The single driver has that 'oh so sweet midrange' cohesivness, but suffers at the frequency extremes, and lack of linearity. What is the XO frequency of the SEAS coax? Would you sell the speaker without the passive XO and just 2 binding posts going to the woofer and tweeter? I'd use an external line level XO.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 02:56 am »

Quote from: Cacophonix on 21 Mar 2007, 09:21 pm

Is this something like what madisound has on their website? They are selling the crossover, driver and cabinets separately though.

Same cabinet and driver but I designed a crossover that's quite different from the Seas kit and treated the inside walls of the cabinet with a composite damping material.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 02:59 am »

Quote from: konut on 22 Mar 2007, 02:48 am

Both coaxials and single driver designs have their strengths and weaknesses. I've found that the major weakness of the coax is to be found in the XO. Most of this weakness can be mitigated by the use of a line level, weather active or passive, XO , as witnessed by the active Tannoys. The single driver has that 'oh so sweet midrange' cohesivness, but suffers at the frequency extremes, and lack of linearity. What is the XO frequency of the SEAS coax? Would you sell the speaker without the passive XO and just 2 binding posts going to the woofer and tweeter? I'd use an external line level XO.

The crossover point is proprietary but you can get an idea from looking at the impedance curve

If you want to modify things for your needs you can buy the cabinets and parts from Madisound.

konut · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 03:07 am »

Where can I see a plot of the impedance curve?

SET Man · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 03:23 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71 on 22 Mar 2007, 02:32 am

I've heard the same coaxial driver speaker that Buddy heard (Jim's Tannoy) and it's far better than any single driver speaker I've personally heard. It has most of the coherency and far more output at the extremes. I can respect the coherency of single drivers, but they are way too limited for me in terms of output and they don't match the type of music I listen to at all. I still think the most neutral and coherent speaker I've personally heard is the original Quad ESL (though this is not ideal for rock music either). If I listened to lots of chamber or vocals, then I'd be all over single drivers.

Hey!

Yup! That's the one

I didn't want to mention it here on Rick's thread

Definitely more versatile than single driver speaker. Still got most of the good parts of Single driver. One of my favorite speaker I've heard so far. I could live with that if I had a much bigger room.

But than again, I don't think I will give up my Single driver without xover of which suited me well anytime soon.

Take care,
Buddy

Rick Craig · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 04:02 am »

Quote from: konut on 22 Mar 2007, 03:07 am

Where can I see a plot of the impedance curve?

I'll post the measurements after I return from the AK Fest.