[Double Ugly]

Is this Bertram's only website?  Every hyperlink on the page is for e-mail; I found nothing written about their products in any language.   

Not that it matters since I'm happy with my current cables.  I've yet to find anything that competes with the realism I get w/ my Stealth Indra, and the Straley SCs are as good as any I've heard, regardless of price.

-Jim

[TomS]

I'm sure Bob would not mind the speak-on route, only question is if it is a generally accepted standard, personally I don't have a problem with it, but it would prevent people from experimenting with cables a bit.

 Hi Karsten,
 The speak-on connectors I mentioned would be used on the cord that connects the x-over to the speaker.
 If I had my way, I would use Speak-on speaker cables as well.

This also prevents a multi-amp direct to drivers disaster if someone decides to go active and mixes them up = blown drivers

[Aether Audio]

Gentlemen,

To leave it too open ended risks handing us drawing boards and pencils and coming up with too many options, each of which gets one vote!

That was never my intention and is not the level of options I was offering. DU had his suggestion while the others seem to be more conservative with regards to the aesthetics.  The type of box construction was the only matter in question.  I can envision a hardwood platform with a clear plastic cover which would lend the thing being put on display.  Then there's the black box option - simple and cheap.  Finally, a compromise where the black box has a Plexiglas plate on top for the terminal mounting that still permits visualization of the inner components.  That "box" can easily be made of hardwood too.  I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but seeing that this crossover will be "state of the art" and rather pricey anyway, I thought there may be interest in showing it off.  I see logic in keeping the cost as low as possible, but I also see logic in going the "rest of the way" and showcasing the thing.  I simply wanted to let everyone know that since it hasn't been built yet, we still have options.

With regard to the size and layout though...that was never an option.  It will be made to the best of my ability based on the physics alone.  To get an idea of the complexities involved, check out the links below:

The Theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector

Cool Graphics:
http://www.ifh.ee.ethz.ch/~pascal/sphere/

Unless there's a EE out there that wants to collaborate with me free of charge, I don't see much outside involvement in the matter of electrical design - which leads to the final basic size and shape.  All that is at issue here is the cosmetics.  Since we have other orders to fill in the short run, I'm not going to be able to start on this in the next few days.  That leaves a little time for everyone to have their input so we might as well take advantage of it.  In the end, no matter what they will look nice - so fear not.

Obviously, the x-over should be connected to the speakers with speak-on connectors which I am already certain Bob has planned (I know your feelings on this one Bob ) with the "umbilical" cord also using high quality cable (same as used in the speakers).

Not in this case Bill.

This also prevents a multi-amp direct to drivers disaster if someone decides to go active and mixes them up = blown drivers

Exactly.  But... no matter what wire we were to use between the X-O and the enclosure, someone would want the option of using different wire.  Designing-in a cable also potentially reduces re-sale value for the same reason.  We want to secure your investment as much as possible.  On top of all that, we already have our hands full so the last thing I need is to worry about sourcing wire, connectors, etc., and having to build cables.  If we were selling these into the pro market, it would be a "slam dunk" and "Speak-Ons" would be a given.

Just so you know, I'm using all Mundorf peripheral materials as well.  Silver-gold solder and hook-up wire along with their gold plated copper binding posts.  In the end, these will be some of the most highly refined crossovers anyone has ever built.

-Bob

PS.  A little marketing plug here so please excuse.  I am somewhat amazed and extremely pleased to hear of Karsten's discoveries.  It appears that every change in the associated components and upstream electronics is clearly audible.  This suggests that the core technology offers an extreme level of performance and resolution - beyond what I had even anticipated.  Most products reach a point of diminishing returns when going to such extremes.  Apparently we haven't hit that "brick wall" yet.  Thank you very much.

[Freejazz]

Thanks for further clarifying Bob ... this Internet thing sure enables rapid communication, but also leaves a bit of room for (mis-) interpretation! 

As I have the Revs in the now deceased full studio finish, I could easily go for a matching all studio-finish "black box" or as an option, one with a plexi-cover to highlight the the beauty of your crossover work.

That said, I am of no real assistance here, as I am also fine with each of the other suggestions - hardwood board/plexi-cover, DU's matching wood box/plexi-cover ... etc.  Well, that is as long as DU doesn't mind paying for all that lovely Cocobolo for mine!    Thanks Jim!

*Kidding aside, I know materials have been debated ad-nausem on this and other Forums, but would there be a materials choice for optimal "sonic" reasons?

This should be something quite special ... again, thanks for all your work ...

Scott

[Bill Baker]

Obviously, the x-over should be connected to the speakers with speak-on connectors which I am already certain Bob has planned (I know your feelings on this one Bob ) with the "umbilical" cord also using high quality cable (same as used in the speakers).

Not in this case Bill

.

 Oh no? Can you elaborate on your thoughts and plans on this one Bob? Just curious.

[Karsten]

On a side note I can mention that I have never relaxed this good listening to music before. Nothing seems to confuse the brain in any way. Actually I often find myself in sort of a meditative state, fully awake and listening but the mind is totally relaxed. That is so nice 

Karsten

[Double Ugly]

Though I ditched the idea a while back, this whole "Full Monty" Revelation thing has pretty much convinced me to build an addition onto my house. 

My current room is (barely) adequate for a speaker the size of the Revelations, but speakers that good deserve to be in a room that allows them to breath.  I want to hear their full potential, and it's gonna cost me some serious smack to hear it.  Even so, because I know what'll be waiting for me when I'm finished, I'm OK with that.   

'Course, then there are the room treatments, additional amps for the Timepiece surrounds and "Full Monty" Continuum center channel, top-notch surround processor, ICs, SCs, PCs, etc., etc..

-Jim

PS - For those of you who can appreciate the absurdity of what I'm doing, and who can find it in your hearts to take pity on a poor ol' country boy and his budget, I will be accepting donations for the DURRF (DU Revelation Room Fund) beginning April 16th thru completion of the project.  PayPal accepted at no charge. 

All donations are tax deductible... as far as you know. 

[WEEZ]

DU,

Poor ol' country boy? Hah!

Remember the guy I told you about who has his system in a separate BUILDING?  There may not be many of us sicko audiophiles here in the south...but those of us who are, are SICK, SICK SICK. Damn SICK, I say.  Tax deductable my a**..

 

WEEZ

[Double Ugly]

I'm sure you'll have a BIG donation waiting when we come up for the DCI comp in July, WEEZ...

   

[ooheadsoo]

Any thoughts on whether or not it is worth it for the timepieces or continuum to receive this kind of treatment?

[Double Ugly]

Any thoughts on whether or not it is worth it for the timepieces or continuum to receive this kind of treatment?

Assuming Karsten's claims about the improvements wrought from the top-of-the-line Mundorf parts is accurate (and I believe it is), I don't know why the other speakers shouldn't exhibit the same performance gains.  Supposedly the coil may have a more pronounced positive effect w/ 4-ohm speakers, but otherwise the speakers are essentially the same, sans a driver here and a T-line there.

I'll have my Continuum center channel equipped w/ all the goodies so as to match the Revelation mains, but I doubt I'll ever be able to justify the expense of having my Timepieces upgraded.  I reserve the right to change my mind, but I can't imagine many regular Joes having better surround speakers than my 'stock' Timepiece 2.1s.

-Jim

[ooheadsoo]

As you well know, Jim, it's not a small amount of savings to spring for the Revelations.  When you finally spend X amount of time to put enough aside to do it, what's a little more for the premium over the top xovers?  However, I guess my question goes to the value "quotient" for the premium mundorf xover for a speaker like the Timepieces where I presume the cost of the xover will be in the 5-15% of the Timepiece msrp ballpark. 

[lonewolfny42]

Jim....

PS - For those of you who can appreciate the absurdity of what I'm doing, and who can find it in your hearts to take pity on a poor ol' country boy and his budget, I will be accepting donations for the DURRF (DU Revelation Room Fund) beginning April 16th thru completion of the project.  PayPal accepted at no charge.  Wink

All donations are tax deductible... as far as you know. 

Watch for the mailman.....cash on the way...

[Double Ugly]

As you well know, Jim, it's not a small amount of savings to spring for the Revelations.  When you finally spend X amount of time to put enough aside to do it, what's a little more for the premium over the top xovers?  However, I guess my question goes to the value "quotient" for the premium mundorf xover for a speaker like the Timepieces where I presume the cost of the xover will be in the 5-15% of the Timepiece msrp ballpark. 

Yeah, I see what you mean.  Like most everything else, I think it will come down to the personal preferences and perceptions.

Case in point, I think my 2.1s are better than most anything I've heard at several times their price.  If I add-in the cost of the Mundorf "Full Monty", clearly I'll have a lot more invested, but I'm still probably several thousand dollars below the next nearest competitor in *my* opinion.  'Course, that's all said considering *my* wants/needs/desires in a speaker, and I think the Timepieces are outstanding regardless of price.  That I might add a couple thousand dollars to their cost doesn't remove them from the price/performance champion category in my estimation, and depending on the sonic significance of the upgrades, they might actually gain in that regard.  Whether or not anyone else would feel the same way is certainly subject to debate.

But then no one has upgraded the 2.1s to that level yet, so everything I've said about what the 2.1 upgrade might be is pure conjecture.

-Jim

[Double Ugly]

Jim....

PS - For those of you who can appreciate the absurdity of what I'm doing, and who can find it in your hearts to take pity on a poor ol' country boy and his budget, I will be accepting donations for the DURRF (DU Revelation Room Fund) beginning April 16th thru completion of the project.  PayPal accepted at no charge.  Wink

All donations are tax deductible... as far as you know. 

Watch for the mailman.....cash on the way...

Thanks, my friend!  That's just what the doctor ordered! 

I'll let you know when it arrives! 

[Karsten]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Timepiece would respond just as favorable to the upgrade as any SP speaker using this Scan Speak tweeter. The basic engineering is exactly the same. Furthermore it would be possible to keep the cross over when upgrading, since only modification required from Timepiece to any two woofer design would be a resistor and an inductor.

Karsten
 

[Karsten]

PS.  A little marketing plug here so please excuse.  I am somewhat amazed and extremely pleased to hear of Karsten's discoveries.  It appears that every change in the associated components and upstream electronics is clearly audible.  This suggests that the core technology offers an extreme level of performance and resolution - beyond what I had even anticipated.  Most products reach a point of diminishing returns when going to such extremes.  Apparently we haven't hit that "brick wall" yet.  Thank you very much.

Bob, it has surely been my pleasure all the way  Your engineering has been bang on all the time, except for nailing that less desirably manufactured inductor, all I gained is probably in the millivolt area 
My wife Margarita, who went 15 years to music academy, has been a great help as well. In the refining process I did not even have to ask her to know if the changes I did were an improvement or not, just look at here face. When she closed her eyes and got that little smile, things were moving in the right direction, otherwise the bitter beer face would have me to make reevaluate what I did...

Karsten

[Karsten]

I'm having a lot of fun in going through my music collection again. Yesterday I had a go at The Blues Brothers album, I have always liked it but never taken it for a really good recording. The track "Riot In Cell Block Number Nine" I used to skip in the past because it sort of became too much, now it just sounds fantastic, the horns gets that realistic bite to them without sounding harsh in any way and the resolution just makes it possible to notice every little bit of the sound image without anything getting mushed together. In most of the other tracks I also noticed a lot of new details I never heard before, all in all a truly great live recording!

Karsten

[Christof]

But then no one has upgraded the 2.1s to that level yet, so everything I've said about what the 2.1 upgrade might be is pure conjecture.

-Jim

I might go this route as well.  While I can find nothing wrong with my current Timepiece 2.1's I am plagued by the upgrade bug.  It does make sense to upgrade speaker XO components before adding things like escoteric powercords.  As Bob explained it to me, speakers are responsible for just about all the distortion issues in an audio system and it makes no sense to feed rocket fuel to a moped.

I dig the outboard XO option....

[TomS]

Christof,

Are you using Odyssey Extreme Monos with the Timepieces?  I might like to hear that setup if you're open to demo's some time, since I'm close to you.  My SE's just came back from Klaus last night.

Tom