0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 19763 times.
vinyl anachronist,I agree, but the point of the article..and this thread..is 'under $1000'. I fully suspect that anyone looking to get into vinyl at this price would do well to consider KAB.HOWEVER, , "creature on steroids" does strike me as 'over the top' just a bit. And I've read all the Asylum raves....I guess it's whatever floats your boat. The Asylum raved about modded Toshiba DVD players too, as the holy grail for CD playback..if that says anything. (they ARE nice video players..)WEEZ
Quote from: mcrespo71 on 22 Mar 2007, 07:56 pmI would be interested in reading more direct comparisons between this KAB deck and others. The statement by psychicanimal the "creature on steroids" is as good as 5K belt drives- was this comparison actually done? If so, what tables? Same system? Same arm? Similar cartridge? etc. Some people have done it in the Asylum, Alex Yakovlev has a very extensive thread in the Audiogon archives.Shootouts are not needed. The attributes of a modded 1200 or a TT with similar speed/rotational stability are not easy to forget. Remember, only 50% of the music is in the vinyl record: the time domain component rests on the TT's speed/rotational stability. Now, if someone is really into what I despectively call 'analog sound' they'll never like something that's closer to the recording. If you give it some serious thought you'll understand. Once a person gets to learn what stylus drag does, things change for the better. It's hard...like convincing someone who's used to cheap Lambrusco wine w/ screw caps to appreciate Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon. Fania has fast percussion Latin music reissues on virgin vinyl: play them on a modded 1200. Then take the record wherever you want. ***
I would be interested in reading more direct comparisons between this KAB deck and others. The statement by psychicanimal the "creature on steroids" is as good as 5K belt drives- was this comparison actually done? If so, what tables? Same system? Same arm? Similar cartridge? etc.
Then again, who'd a thunk we would still be arguing about which turntable sounds the best in 2007? The bottom line is, I don't care what you're listening to records on, as long as you're listening. It's all good.
Just for fun, I went on the KAB website the other day, and started ordering a 1210 with all of the goodies, and the total came to almost $2000. Now, let's take THAT table, and have him do a comparison with other $2000 tables such as a Michell Tecnodec or a Rega P5 with PSU or a VPI Scout or a Funk Firm Vector.I think he would have come to different conclusions.
I have a Roksan Xerxes XX with the TMS 2 Uber Power Supply that is dead on in terms of speed stability- with the arm down accounting for stylus drag and using a proper strobe. However, it really doesn't sound very similar to my friends Kuzma that also measures perfect in terms of speed stability, so there are obviously more parameters to the sound of a TT than speed stability. I guess the one thing I can say is they both sound very good- the Roksan having better timing and the Kuzma having more scale and weight.
Has anyone considered that, as both the greatest strength and potential weakness of any direct drive (Technics or not) is the drive system itself, there is some sort of 'blurring' that belt drive fans hear with direct drives. The best direct drive systems have rumble figures of -80db, equal to all but the priciest belt drive decks with fancy machined bearings, but that there might well be some yet unmeasured rumble-like circumstance at play. The addition of a properly designed subsonic filter (once pretty standard, now all but forgotten) might well re-align the deck so both formats are on equal footing. Even when you find them, a good many subsonic filters begin roll off at 30Hz...possibly too high. Probably a slow roll-off from 20Hz culminating in very steep filtering as you approach single digits seems appropriate. I suggest this as my JVC direct drive table has an admirable -78db rumble figure, yet when I activated the subsonic filter of my newly acquired APT-Holman preamp, the noise floor dropped substantially. I have very good good isolation, my table weighs about 34 lbs with 9 lbs of Plast-i-Clay added, and my arm is internally damped in the vertical and horizontal planes (so, arm resonance mismatches are eliminated). Yet, activating that subsonic filter removed a layer of grunge I did not know existed in my system So consider if direct drives somehow don't float your boat, you may be only a well designed subsonic filter away from having that perfect speed/drag countering and eery/inky black blackground that the best belt drives offer. All for a price a lot less than those pricey belt drives may run you. For a more contemporary choice, CIAudio's PP-1 seems flexible, powerful and offers a subsonic filter beginning it's rolloff at 20Hz. Dusty wouldn't know me from ahole in the wall - so there's no affiliation whatsoever. I'm not 100% sure of this point, but I believe it is possible and that I experienced this very phenomenon today with my APT-Holman preamp.
Again, speed stability as it refers to dynamic stylus drag can NOT be ascertained by watching a strobe.Crespo, stop theorizing and get some real test records:
with all this talk of direct drive, the one Im actually on the lookout foris an SP10 mk II. My newest writer (but a very old and dear friend)still has his and it is quite good!There is definitely more than one way to skin the analog cat...Just the variety of the responses here show that many of you all have a different approach that is working well.
The way comments like 'mass market' are thrown around are puzzling, too...almost implying that the build process between a '1200 and a Rega is somehow different (neither are built to order, both are handmade in bulk to be shipped to stores). This ain't the $99 special at Circuit City, people.
Point taken. Though, I still fail to see what, if any, difference would be appreciable in the final product quality between the two based on where it is available. Would affect the price, though.
Maybe we're talking about the term "mass-produced" here, which would definitely have an effect. I don't know how SL1200s are manufactured, but I'd be surprised if it's the same way Regas are manufactured, i.e. by people sitting at tables putting them together by hand. There are supposedly three million SL1200s in the world, remember.
QuoteAgain, speed stability as it refers to dynamic stylus drag can NOT be ascertained by watching a strobe.Crespo, stop theorizing and get some real test records:So what are you recommending to really test speed stability- listen to these records?
