[crossroadazn]

I have a big Def-Tech powerfield 1500 ( 15" ) for modded Silverline Audio SR-12 and MG-10/QR. Would it be better if I use 2 small 8" power-subs in 14x17x8 room ? Thanks for the inputs.

[warnerwh]

I'd keep the 15" sub. Eight inch subs are usually more woofer than subwoofer. I've run my system both ways and using one sub works fine if it can keep up with the mains.

If you went to two large 12" or larger quality subs that may help depending on a number of things.  Eight inch subs usually don't do the lowest octave and a half well at all. You need to move too much air and one 15" of the same quality as two eights will output more.

[TONEPUB]

I'd go with a pair of 10's.  They will pressurize the room a lot better than a single 15.
A lot of today's digital recordings actually have stereo bass, so you will get better
imaging with a pair of subs, with one for each channel.

[brad b]

Depends what your desired sound output characteristics are, your room interaction, and affinity for the lowest octave is.  I have 2 REL Stratus III's and they act as the stands for my GR Diluceo's.  When I just had 1, I had room interaction that was not pleasant with some tracks .  2 seemed to provide a smoothing effect and they are very quick which works for my musical tastes.  You can certainly find subs that go lower, but the REL's seem to match up with the output characteristics of the Diluceo's.  Match sub to speaker output so that you don't buy too much or too little.
Good luck!
Brad

[pacifico]

We,ve had similar discussions like this before, quitte possibly in the ACI circle. I'll tr and find them. I am getting 2 10" subs for myself at some point. For me, it's the best combo of "speed" and output.

[Soundbitten]

They will pressurize the room

What does pressurize a room mean ? I've heard the term used with sub & speakers . Please forgive my ignorance .

[woodsyi]

When you turn your system on, your speakers put out sound waves.  It bounces around and loses power as it travels.  In order for you to maintain a given volume level, you have to continue to supply more waves.  The steady state in a room at a volume level is what Brian means by pressuring the room.  It's the "thermodynamical" aspect of room acoustics to go with the wave/particle mechanics.  I think you can also view it as macro acoustics vs. micro acoustics of wave/particle behavior.

[macrojack]

Silly boy, This is America, more is always better.

[bpape]

2 subs can work very well and provide a more enveloping experience IF (and a big if here) you have total flexibility as to where to put them.  Integrating a single sub into a music system isn't bad.  Getting 2 to work together, in phase with each other and with the mains, and have complementary, not interference response is a lot tougher.  IMO it's worth the effort though.  If you're restricted as to where you can place the subs, then I'd stick with a single.

Bryan

[Mike Dzurko]

Just uploaded a FAQ on this very subject . . ..


We are often asked, “What about stereo subs vs. a single mono sub? As we move down in frequency, it becomes more and more difficult to locate the sound source. This is in part because of the human hearing mechanism and because the wavelengths are getting longer and longer. The wavelength at 80Hz is approx. 14’, at 40Hz it is 28’ and so on. You will hear statements such as “bass is non-directional”. However, there is not a specific frequency at which this instantly happens, and it varies with individual listeners. When this occurs is also a function of the design of the sub(s) as well as room placement, proper integration of the sub(s), and associated equipment. In practice, some people, in some situations won’t be able to localize a single subwoofer crossed over above 100Hz. Other people, in other setups may be able to localize a single sub crossed over well below 80Hz.

For those people looking for the absolute ultimate two-channel musical performance we recommend considering a stereo pair of subwoofers. This of course requires room and budget. It also requires a dedication of commitment by the enthusiast to spend the time needed to optimize placement and adjustment. While a stereo pair of subwoofers doesn’t have to be more difficult to optimize, it can be more time consuming. For those willing to invest the time and money, what can they expect to gain? A stereo pair of subs will offer improvements in the quality of bass and increase the sense of space and soundstage. A stereo pair of subs is the gold standard for bass reproduction in a high-end two channel systems.

 

[NewBuyer]

Just to clarify: By "stereo pair of subs" we mean one sub dedicated to just the left channel (mono) and another dedicated to just the right channel (mono), right?

Also, is there ever a situation where having a stereo pair of subs, could actually end up sounding worse instead of equal/better?

[JoshK]

Also, is there ever a situation where having a stereo pair of subs, could actually end up sounding worse instead of equal/better?

Yes of course, there is no gaurantee two is better than one as the seperated wave launches can cancel and couple at varying frequencies causing lumpier FR in room.  Of course the opposite is possible too.  If one sub is hard to integrate, two is harder....the upside is higher but you must invest the time to learn how to make it happen.  IMHO .

[NewBuyer]

Hi Josh,

If using dedicated single-channel mono subs, and listening to a stereo recording containing stereo bass (as TONEPUB described): Would these issues you mentioned, still remain?

[jt1stcav]

I'm a two (stereo?) subwoofer owner. As I understand it, a pair of subs work the same as a pair of loudspeakers with a stereo signal going through 'em. If a program has true stereo bass (like in certain pipe organ recordings where bass pipes from the Pedal Division can be spread across the vast size of organ chambers), then it's my opinion that you'll hear stereo seperation/localization for any given bass note within the dual subs' range (only the lowest bass pipes on the organ from around tenor C on down to 20Hz and lower will not be localized). I know it's true on electronic music performed on a synthesizer or any pro keyboard/workstation where bass notes will be panning across the soundstage (or ping-ponging back and forth from the left channel to the right repeatedly, et al), for I've done this years ago while creating a few MIDI files on an old Roland SoundCanvas tone generator and a Cakewalk sequencer, mastering them onto two-channel DAT cassettes.

In my limited experience, one high quality subwoofer will work equally as well as two, depending on room boundaries/placement. All of my brothers have single, high powered SVS and DIY homemade subs in their systems, and sound quality is superb IMO all the way down to their reported frequency ranges (from 20Hz on down to 16Hz, which will pressurize a room)! I'm a poor slob on the other hand with an extremely limited budget and could only afford the entry-level Dayton Audio 10" down-firing powered sub (now discontinued from PartsExpress). For what it is, this budget 100 watt sub isn't half bad, reaching down to its supposed 25Hz fundamentals; before being dropped from Dayton's lineup with a new model, I decided on buying another identicle sub since the sale price was easily within my reach (why not?). The biggest improvement with having two active subwoofers (once they're dialed in) is greater bass output, which is all moot if you already own a high-end 15" or larger Velodyne, REL, Legacy, SVS, or similar TOTL model. My three bro's have their audio systems in large rooms, so their large active subs work just fine for both music and movies. I, on the other hand, have my little 8 watt SET tube amp and newly aquired Klipsch RB-75 monitors in a tiny spare bedroom...technically, one 10" Dayton sub would've been enough, but it is nice to have two! If my brothers could afford two identicle subs for their systems, they'd probably do it too. But it's not really necessary for their needs, and believe me, their single megawatt subs do the trick in grand style!

Thus, it's my opinion that although two subwoofers would be the icing on the cake, the cake tastes equally as good without the extra icing. Dual subs are really nice, and if you can already afford the best in subwoofers, then by all means go for the gusto and buy a pair! But it's not really necessary to have two if your single sub is the finest you can afford and already placed properly in your music room.

FWIW...

[gme109]

Just uploaded a FAQ on this very subject . . ..


We are often asked, “What about stereo subs vs. a single mono sub? As we move down in frequency, it becomes more and more difficult to locate the sound source. This is in part because of the human hearing mechanism and because the wavelengths are getting longer and longer. The wavelength at 80Hz is approx. 14’, at 40Hz it is 28’ and so on. You will hear statements such as “bass is non-directional”. However, there is not a specific frequency at which this instantly happens, and it varies with individual listeners. When this occurs is also a function of the design of the sub(s) as well as room placement, proper integration of the sub(s), and associated equipment. In practice, some people, in some situations won’t be able to localize a single subwoofer crossed over above 100Hz. Other people, in other setups may be able to localize a single sub crossed over well below 80Hz.

For those people looking for the absolute ultimate two-channel musical performance we recommend considering a stereo pair of subwoofers. This of course requires room and budget. It also requires a dedication of commitment by the enthusiast to spend the time needed to optimize placement and adjustment. While a stereo pair of subwoofers doesn’t have to be more difficult to optimize, it can be more time consuming. For those willing to invest the time and money, what can they expect to gain? A stereo pair of subs will offer improvements in the quality of bass and increase the sense of space and soundstage. A stereo pair of subs is the gold standard for bass reproduction in a high-end two channel systems.

 

What about if you have a fixed budget, would two lesser subs still sound better than one sub of higher quality?

[Mike Dzurko]

Just uploaded a FAQ on this very subject . . ..


We are often asked, “What about stereo subs vs. a single mono sub? As we move down in frequency, it becomes more and more difficult to locate the sound source. This is in part because of the human hearing mechanism and because the wavelengths are getting longer and longer. The wavelength at 80Hz is approx. 14’, at 40Hz it is 28’ and so on. You will hear statements such as “bass is non-directional”. However, there is not a specific frequency at which this instantly happens, and it varies with individual listeners. When this occurs is also a function of the design of the sub(s) as well as room placement, proper integration of the sub(s), and associated equipment. In practice, some people, in some situations won’t be able to localize a single subwoofer crossed over above 100Hz. Other people, in other setups may be able to localize a single sub crossed over well below 80Hz.

For those people looking for the absolute ultimate two-channel musical performance we recommend considering a stereo pair of subwoofers. This of course requires room and budget. It also requires a dedication of commitment by the enthusiast to spend the time needed to optimize placement and adjustment. While a stereo pair of subwoofers doesn’t have to be more difficult to optimize, it can be more time consuming. For those willing to invest the time and money, what can they expect to gain? A stereo pair of subs will offer improvements in the quality of bass and increase the sense of space and soundstage. A stereo pair of subs is the gold standard for bass reproduction in a high-end two channel systems.

 

What about if you have a fixed budget, would two lesser subs still sound better than one sub of higher quality?

No, like I said, the stereo pair is the ultimate IF budget and space allow. If there is a specific budget, I'd much rather have one high quality sub vs. two lesser quality subs.

[budyog]

I could not agree more then what Mr. Dzurko is saying. Buy one very high quality sub, save some more money and then buy another one. That is what I did and YES, 2 high quality subs are better than one!

[duggie]

Also, is there ever a situation where having a stereo pair of subs, could actually end up sounding worse instead of equal/better?

Yes of course, there is no gaurantee two is better than one as the seperated wave launches can cancel and couple at varying frequencies causing lumpier FR in room.  Of course the opposite is possible too.  If one sub is hard to integrate, two is harder....the upside is higher but you must invest the time to learn how to make it happen.  IMHO .

i must respectfully disagree here - i believe two subs is easier to integrate into a room than one.  having the two different wave launches will almost always help even out any frequency aberrations, & more evenly load the room.  the only time i could imagine that one sub might be easier to integrate is if your subs are over-spec'd for the room - ie: a pair of vmps larger subs in a 12x14 room, for example.  but, even in this scenario, all that would be needed would be to properly adjust the output.

and, a pair of properly positioned stereo subs will always improve soundstaging. in my experience, the even a good single-sub set up will actually degrade soundstaging by a tiny amount, as opposed to having no subwoofer.  if you are extremely careful, & your sub's x-over is low enuff, you may be able to have this degradation be so slight as to not be an issue.  i have heard this only once - w/sub directly centered between the speakers, & in the nearfield.

re: the specific budget issue, two lesser subs vs one of higher quality, i would always go for the highest quality possible, but with the intention of finally having a pair of subs.  for example, if a pair of vmps original subs was all that my room needed, i would rather have a pair of these than a single vmps larger sub.  while the bass output of the larger is greater than the original, the quality of the bass is the same, imo.  so, if i couldn't initially afford a pair of originals, i would get only one original, w/the thought to add a seond one later, as opposed to getting one single larger as a final solution.  of course, if you had the room/space for a largewr sub now, & second larger sub, down the road, then that would also be a good plan...   

ymmv...

[Soundbitten]

Are two small subs better one large ?

it depends how large and how hungry you are .     

[rajacat]