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django11 · « **Reply #320 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:06 pm »

Quote from: 620gold on 7 Dec 2008, 06:56 pm

I was making that point to DRL, not the rest of the posters here. I thought that obvious. You've had some pointed criticisms of AV123 yourself Django and I wouldn't criticize you for saying it either.

Indeed it was obvious. Perhaps it is not so much your criticisms but the tone of them and the person you are directing them at. You two seem to know each other and have issues. I don't want to take sides. I just wasn't looking forward to an argument. And if you say you don't have any respect for av123 I just get the feeling that your contribution might not be conducive to the tone I was hoping to see here. This isn't my forum so do as you please...

Digital Ra · « **Reply #321 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:06 pm »

Quote

- No Cali products....

Mine if I ask why? I would be lying if I didn't say I was a bit disappointed in the X-SLS speakers my wife won but they are not terrible. I was concerned when ordering the X-Statik and VOCE but heard them first hand and knew they sounded very good. I was not disappointed with this purchase at all. The wait for them was agonizing but in fairness to AV123 I threw a couple Black Friday subs in the mix and was the cause of my own delay.

django11 · « **Reply #322 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:08 pm »

Yeah, I'm going to get the X-Head v2 soon. Right?

DogWizard · « **Reply #323 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: Jed M on 7 Dec 2008, 07:03 pm

Good points Rich. I wish I was offered the trade in deal. Waiting 10 months is better than 3 years. Maybe it was a public offer and I just missed it. I would have jumped at that in a heart beat. Oh well, I am sure the HR will be tremendous, I just hope I don't need to wait much longer...

It wasn't public as far as I know - and I have been watching for UFW-12 news pretty much non-stop. That's the one truly disappointing product that I have purchased and the lack of results on top of the YEARS worth of excuses and delays have done more to erode my confidence in the company than almost anything else. Promises and good intentions just aren't cutting it anymore - this has supposedly been a "top priority" for YEARS. If it really is a priority then show me - don't tell me...

Jed M · « **Reply #324 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:14 pm »

My guess would be all the quality control issues with Cali. I have ordered my parents a full set of X-MTM, X-CS, and four X-LS's for their new house being built that have been sitting in their basement unopened and I fear opening them and seeing bent grills or something worse. I have been using their two (feetless) MFW-15's while waiting for my UFW-12's to get repaired and as of last week one of the MFW's just started humming for no reason. I know the fix but I am not looking forward to removing the amp and doing what I feel should have been done in the first place. I realize everybody makes mistakes and I have had issues with Outlaw, SVS and Emotiva that were all taken care of in a fast and efficient manner, but they just seem to be piling up at AV123 with no end in sight.

Digital Ra · « **Reply #325 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:18 pm »

agreed

DogWizard · « **Reply #326 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:20 pm »

"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...

Digital Ra · « **Reply #327 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:24 pm »

Well FWIW the only issue I've had is a couple bad post mounts for the grills and fortunately this is something I can replace here relatively easily.

DogWizard · « **Reply #328 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:30 pm »

That's made it so difficult - lots of people have had great luck with the Cali products. I just didn't have the personal comfort level that I felt I needed...

BillB · « **Reply #329 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:44 pm »

Now that I am out of the umbrella I can disclose this.

My only Cali product is an MFW-15 which I bought because I had a 2fer deal and my UFW-12 was such an utter disappointment.

The MFW-15 that I picked for myself (random box opening) had the following issues:

Extreme hum even on the dedicated outlet (UFW-12 hummed on an aux. outlet as well and was moved next to the rack on a 20a dedicated that I installed for theater components).
One push-in nut pushed out by the faceplate bolt (found resting on the magnet).
A misaligned pole piece on the woofer (av123 sent a replacement).
1 1/2" screw holding woofer in and 7 1".
No seal between the amp/controls/sub box which could cause extreme air leak issues (the "stick a sock in it" problem discovered by me on another customers sub).
A thin layer of owen's corning type insulation inside the box (my opinion is that fiberglass would be a very bad idea for a moving object to get lodged in it).
A hot hot amp.

I fixed all of these problems myself and part of that included buying a $60 hum suppressor bringing my cost of the product up.

Of all the other stuff I owned from them (3 X-cs, 4 X-ls, X-sub, SP3, CD-5, Rocket 760, Bigfoot, Ref .5 x5 (3 for parents) I have only had one other issue (bad driver on 760). That stuff is all China and the issues with one Cali product almost outnumber the total China stuff I own.

Digital Ra · « **Reply #330 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:54 pm »

hmm well admittedly I haven't opened mine up...hopefully I won't have to.

It seems to me that over the last couple of years there has been a emphasis to move more and more manufacturing to Cali as opposed to China. China still makes the Rockets but nearly every new product seems to come from Cali. Aside from the QC items you guys mention it seems overall the Cali facility has been a bust. Bad cost estimating and production issues alone would seem to be a good indicator that moving more manufacturing there is not a good idea but never the less it seems they continue to pile on new products.

With all the events in the world....the dollar value in Cali for example it almost seems like perhaps it would be a good idea to find another manufacturing partner and stop the bleeding.

myaudiocd · « **Reply #331 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 07:58 pm »

I've had very good success with av123 products and customer service, though I've occasionally had to work a bit to get calls returned, emails answered etc. But that wasn't a big deal to me. The ongoing HR for the 12 is, well, frustrating. But overall I don't have the complaints many others do.
I also purposely chose to avoid Cali products until they had some time to prove themselves.

I certainly believe they try very hard, and work very hard, to satisfy us....their heart's in the right place.

620gold · « **Reply #332 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:05 pm »

Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?

rmassey · « **Reply #333 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:05 pm »

The UFW/MFW exchange was not 1:1.... I paid cash + UFW for the MFW to settle the warranty claim. Mark was very generous with this offer and I stuck it out for the duration. Except for a hum issue (which I fixed with a $40 isolator) the sub does work as advertised IMO, but the wait was painful.

The No Cali rule is mostly due to all the veneer issues, constantly changing grills/no grills, plant moves shipping delays, etc. I specifically went with a SB MFW 15 to avoid any possible veneer problems.

Also, I have a friend with a 5.0 X systems and they all have veneer issues. At best these are B-stock and he waited over a year for A stock X-MTM's. He's to polite to make a warranty claim and they don't even make the same speakers now. I recommended he buy the X speakers, so I feel somewhat responsible for this and have not recommend another AV123 product since.

uw69 · « **Reply #334 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: DogWizard on 7 Dec 2008, 07:20 pm

"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...

Which products are produced in Cali?

rmassey · « **Reply #335 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:28 pm »

Quote from: uw69 on 7 Dec 2008, 08:24 pm

Quote from: DogWizard on 7 Dec 2008, 07:20 pm
"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...

Which products are produced in Cali?

All X speakers (with the exception of early China runs) + MFW subs (except Rosewood China cabs)

uw69 · « **Reply #336 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:35 pm »

oops, I just purchased a second MFW-15!

aaron smithski · « **Reply #337 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: 620gold on 7 Dec 2008, 08:05 pm

Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?

WOW...I want to try some of whatever you took to come up with that comment! aa

Eddie Horton · « **Reply #338 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 09:42 pm »

This is roughly the same reply I posted at AVS before the thread was deleted. I don't own any AV123 products. I do have an Ascend/Hsu setup which is currently boxed up and for sale, but I'm not bashing one and praising another. My only dealings with them came when my parents asked my opinion on a modest living room setup for them. Upon my recommendation, they purchased a 47" Vizio TV, a Panasonic XR-57 receiver, some in-ceiling surrounds from HTD, and 2 X-LS's, 1 X-CS, and an X-Sub. I recommended AV123 due to their beautiful veneers and positive comments. Since all veneers were heavily backordered at the time, my Dad ended up getting the satin black ones that were supposed to be in stock. After several delays and e-mails from him, they got their speakers. I noticed on the forums that some had tweeter issues or low sub volume issues, but theirs seemed to be OK. Every time I talked to them, I had to hear about how they had not gotten their speakers yet. This left a bad taste in their mouth and kind of made me aggravated since I'm the one that suggested them. I have no doubt MLS is a good guy. I've lurked on their forum for a while now and have seen the comments posted by him and others. I really hope they get it together, and would have ordered some speakers for myself since their looks can't be beat for the price, but with all the issues lately and my limited vicarious experience, I'll have to pass.

geekinthehood · « **Reply #339 on:** 7 Dec 2008, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: 620gold on 7 Dec 2008, 08:05 pm

Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?

Too bad this forum doesn't have the "um... No" smiley.