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So..... is this the new home for AV123 refugees? Seems every forum I go to asking what happened over there the thread gets shut down or deleted, weird...! This place seems refreshingly cheerful, maybe way more than that other site I wonder!
I don’t get it either - was the plan to intentionally alienate everyone? Drive away the old time supporters as well as the newer customers who were becoming increasingly less tolerant of the delays and excuses? The number of people I saw who actually posted abusive or inappropriate things was fractionally small and could have been easily handled by active and competent moderation. Not an auspicious start to the "new and improved" AV123...I have been a long time supporter and have purchased literally pallets of gear from Mark and AV123. I don't think that I have ever been anything less that professional in my dealings with Mark, the company, or other forum members. I did try (like many others) to honestly observe and offer an opinion on why the problems have been springing out of the woodwork lately. Not out of malice, or a desire to do harm, or to hurt Mark's feelings, but because it needed to be said. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have taken the time. I can't count the number of times that Mark stated that the forums were there for both the good and the bad and that was one of the reasons I had been a supporter up to this point. As soon as the "bad" starts being censored, it becomes impossible to get the real story. The very idea of hiding the problems (of which there have been many, and many seemingly legitimate) or shuffling them off out of sight of potential customers is concerning to say the least.As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place. What is most disappointing is that the TCA thread, like most of the ones on AV123, had numerous legitimate, courteously stated suggestions and observations - they just weren't what Craig wanted to hear. The general gist - and M-fine stated it most eloquently - was that if AV123 fixed the problems with the company, the issues with the forum would take care of themselves. "Fixing" the forum without addressing the underlying issues won't solve anything and is akin to putting a bandaid on a compound fracture. It may cover up the blood for a little while, but that won't heal the damage.I have heard all the stories, and I am truly and honestly sorry for all of the problems and issues that Mark has had to deal with recently. Hopefully there is someone there (who Mark will listen to) who is in a position to convince Mark to address the real problem, not just the easy and convenient one. I’d like to go back, I really would, but there needs to be some real actual change – not just good intentions.I found Klaus and Odyssey here a while back and I have always wanted to try some Salk’s, maybe it’s time for some changes all around…
As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place.
Quote from: DogWizard on 7 Dec 2008, 04:38 amAs should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place. Just wondering why that should be expected? Because Craig is Craig or because of the business relationship? Craig actually started the thread...
Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
Quote from: django1 on 7 Dec 2008, 04:59 amQuote from: DogWizard on 7 Dec 2008, 04:38 amAs should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place. Just wondering why that should be expected? Because Craig is Craig or because of the business relationship? Craig actually started the thread...A little bit of both I suppose - he had shut it down before and stepped in a couple of times to redirect it to where he wanted it to go. I have great respect for his knowledge but he seems to be a very "my way or the highway" kind of guy...
Quote from: SlushPuppy on 7 Dec 2008, 04:49 amGood post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do
Quote from: DogWizard on 7 Dec 2008, 05:14 amQuote from: SlushPuppy on 7 Dec 2008, 04:49 amGood post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do Hmmm. My room is roughly 18X16. I wonder if one Ultra will be enough? SVS customer service (EXCELLENT by the way) said it would do. I really don't care about movies, but I am a pretty avid music listener. I wonder if I should go with the Epik Conquest - ugly as it is.Damn, just when I thought I had my mind made up.
I can vouch for Rick and Selah Audio as being a great choice. Listening to his speakers at this very moment... I have five, and the Whomp! sub as well. Excellent value... better value, service, and quality than AV123 IMO.
I've had Selah bookmarked for a long time. I would love to have his Galenas in my system
It's sure nice to "see" everyone. I'd like to buy everyone a beer. Bartender!
