[cab]

"Only takes a cow once", meaning, if they lick an electric fence once, they learn their lesson and don't do it again.....

[cab]

And there's always a troll lurking...

I think this whole forum shutdown is absolutely WRONG, but I still have several thousand dollars in av123 (and Perpetual Technology) equipment as do thousands of other people.  Very good stuff bought at great prices and for me (and for the majority of av123 customers), delivered on time when promised.
[/quote]



Troll? I guess that's what you call it when someone brings up something you would rather not hear, Mr. Several Thousand Dollars.....

Here's an excerpt from a Stereo Times article:

   
Digital Processors
Perpetual Technologies P-1A D/D & P-3A D/A processors
By Robert Deutsch   •   January, 2001
At the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas in January 1999, Mark Schifter, erstwhile president of Audio Alchemy, was handing out a press release announcing what seemed like a groundbreaking product from his new company, Perpetual Technologies. The product was the P-1A, a digital-to-digital processor that would do resolution enhancement, loudspeaker correction (amplitude and phase), and room correction—all for less than $1k. It sounded too good to be true.

perpp1a.jpgFour months later, at HI-FI '99, PT actually had a working prototype of the P-1A, and gave an impressive demonstration of its speaker-correction function with the Vandersteen 2Ce. I was told that I'd be getting a review sample as soon as production began, just a few weeks later.

Weeks passed, then months, but still no P-1A. I was starting to think that it might be an example of "vaporware," existing only as a concept and a prototype. However, Mark Schifter continually reassured me that the P-1A was very much a real product, and that the delays in production were caused by revisions in the design to incorporate the latest generation of DSP chips, and to build in more power to do the job even better. PT was also about to introduce a companion piece, the P-3A digital processor, which would do the basic D/A conversion. When would these products be ready? Soon, very soon—maybe just a couple of weeks.

Finally, more than 18 months after the initial product announcement, the P-1A and P-3A review samples appeared on my doorstep. The loudspeaker/room-correction software is still not ready for release (the prototype software was 16-bit; it's being rewritten to take advantage of the P-1A's 24-bit capability), but the resolution enhancement is said to be far better than the original prototype's..."


Sound familiar???

So how's that room and speaker correction working out for you and your P-1A? Delivered on time and when promised was it??? Guess I must have missed it-maybe I got rid of mine too early when I sold it back in 2005 after waiting 5 years.....

[SlushPuppy]

I started feeling uncomfortable when the endless stream of speaker names and renderings started appearing. I mean, how many speakers can you manufacture, and how many price points can you fill? It would have been nice to have a few price tiers, say "Budget", "Midline", and "High End". Then have a complete package (center, surrounds, subs) built around them. Unless you're strictly 2-channel, most people want a complete HT option. Look at the number of people who want Mini surrounds, Ref centers, LS centers, etc. Even custom guys like Salk recognize this. Just a thought.

[floridapoolboy]

I really, REALLY hope Mark doesn't "screw the pooch" with this whole forum thing.  I find it bewildering, all the weirdness.  I opened a thread at AVS asking what the deal was, only to return and find it missing.  I opened a second thread asking where the first one went, and it too was deleted, followed by a stern warning from the head honcho to cease and desist.  Wazzup with all this?  It's like AV123 has ceased to exist, and no one can talk about it, very Orwellian!  Glad I stumbled onto this place, so far it seems pretty cool.

[BillB]

Pretty twilight zoney to me.

The only reason I will go back is because I sold somebody a sub on the premise it would be upgradeable and that appears to have been a lie now...kinda painful when you are not the kind of person who can eat $500 for the heck of it. 

[DRL]

Troll? I guess that's what you call it when someone brings up something you would rather not hear, Mr. Several Thousand Dollars.....

Here's an excerpt from a Stereo Times article:

(article)

Sound familiar???

So how's that room and speaker correction working out for you and your P-1A? Delivered on time and when promised was it???

I wasn't around to purchase the Ptech stuff new.

A distinction should be made between purchasing released, finished products vs. "in development" products.  Mark DOES annouce products way too soon in the development process and it gets him in trouble.  Most other co's don't do this.

The speaker correction works great.  Both the P1A and P3A work great.

[620gold]

That's why DRL is here. He's part of the Twilight Zone over there. It'll be any day now.......right DRL?

[DRL]

Wow - the trolls have found this place too.

Welcome to steveo, jive, etc.

[floridapoolboy]

I started feeling uncomfortable when the endless stream of speaker names and renderings started appearing. I mean, how many speakers can you manufacture, and how many price points can you fill? It would have been nice to have a few price tiers, say "Budget", "Midline", and "High End". Then have a complete package (center, surrounds, subs) built around them. Unless you're strictly 2-channel, most people want a complete HT option. Look at the number of people who want Mini surrounds, Ref centers, LS centers, etc. Even custom guys like Salk recognize this. Just a thought.

I agree with this 100%.  Mark and Co. make some fine speakers, but the lines did become confusing and overlapping.  The Rockets actually started to be less expensive than the X-Statik/X-Voce, due to the Cali screwup.  And yes, all speakers need matching centers and surrounds, unless they are marketed as 2 channel limited.  The Minis and LS series have no centers, and the Rocket surrounds have apparently been discontinued.  All that seems left are rear ported monopoles, which aren't really ideal.  Fix the product mix, work on QC, deliver when promised, and the Co. should be fine.  I'm hoping for the best, but this whole forum closed thing seems pretty whacky, we shall see.........

[620gold]

With all due respect to you Daryl RL, you're still singin' the same ole song and that is why the AV123 forum has gotten so bad.

[uw69]

Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.

[floridapoolboy]

One other thought, from all I've read maybe Mark should withdraw from the subwoofer market.  I can't remember a sub he came out with that wasn't the subject of numerous issues.  

[darienlake]

Wow.. cool to see many of the regulars over here.  I dropped by early yesterday and there was no activity so I went over to TCA.  Won't be going back over there again ...after that thread delete and as well as things recently referenced in this thread...yikes.

BTW... I hope this all works out for MLS... he seems to have the best intentions.  

[uw69]

+1!

[emac]

Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.

There should be more discussion allowed here, and it is good to see some of the familiar names posting.  But let's not ruin it by bringing the same types of arguments over to AC.  It only creates a negative atmosphere for everyone, including those who don't own any AV123 products and who have been posting here for a long time.    

[floridapoolboy]

Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.

AVS has a bizarre set of rules, you never know when you're violating them.  One thread says no Costco talk, yet you can mention any other store.  Other threads say no price talk, yet still others have "Best price found" type posts.  I just found out that you can't talk about another forum on their forum, hmm, "forum envy"...?  I've been a member there for awhile, it's a great source of info, but the contradictory rules and enforcement by the mods leaves me scratching my head.  As far as Tweak City, I always thought they were "AV123-lite".  Most all the posters seem familiar, but I didn't know Craigsub was deleting posts as well.  Too bad, what's the big secret I wonder?

[myaudiocd]

Hi all fellow av123 refugees...I don't feel quite so alone over here now. Been lurking about for a year or 2.... you'll like this site I think. Very knowledgeable and helpful members, and while it's way bigger waters to swim in than av123 with a very different feel, if you want to talk and learn about audio you're in a good place.
mike (northernlite)

[cab]

[\quote]

I wasn't around to purchase the Ptech stuff new.

A distinction should be made between purchasing released, finished products vs. "in development" products.  Mark DOES annouce products way too soon in the development process and it gets him in trouble.  Most other co's don't do this.

The speaker correction works great.  Both the P1A and P3A work great.
[/quote]

If you had been around and followed that drama for oh, say, 5 years, you would know what I am talking about deja vu all over again....

"In development products" are what gets MLS in trouble time and again. My comments were addressing those unhappy with the current problems-that they are nothing new. They were not addressed to the happy customers such as yourself, so if there is a troll in the room, it is you....

Glad to hear the speaker correction works great. When was it released and how many speakers are supported? Do you have to rent the kit to measure or send your speakers in? How many corrections are they offering now and what do they cost? The whole arrangement changed so many times I lost count...

Oh, and are you still waiting on the promised room correction? I am sure it will be released any day now...

Again, none of this is new. It is the de facto MLS business model. And when things get too hot, MLS will release a public statement that will follow this script:

1. Accept all the blame and apologize profusely
2. Mention all the supplier, production, personnel, personal, and health issues they are dealing with
3. Mention all the satisfied customers and how committed they are to making things right
4. Ask for patience
5. Promise to straighten things out.

Saw this time and again with the PT over the 5-6 years I followed it.

Again, MLS is not a bad guy, maybe just a bad business operator.....

Sincerely hope this works out for everyone....

[DRL]

With all due respect to you Daryl RL, you're still singin' the same ole song and that is why the AV123 forum has gotten so bad.

The forum is a reflection of the issues faced by the company and there have been many problems this year.  Fix those problems and most of the forum problems go away.  The forum shutdown makes no sense to me; hopefully whatever else Mark has planned will work.

The forum is also representative of the people that make up the community, and there have been some real a__holes doing their best to make things as negative as possible.  I'm not talking about the customers with legitmate problems.  I'm talking about people that don't have anything on order and maybe don't even own any av123 products.   

As far as me singin' the same song steveo, I'm essentially just a LOT more optimistic than you.  I guess I'm a "glass is half full" person, while you are a "glass is half empty, glass is cracked and leaking all over the table" person. 

[DogWizard]

Just to clarify, I'm considering the new PC13-Ultra. Do you have that one or the earlier PC-Ultra model I've read about?

It is the previous generation (TV-12 Ultra Driver I believe). I have not heard the new PB-13 based subs and I have been happy enough with mine that I have not spent much time researching the difference. I know that there was supposed to be a definate performance boost, unfortunately I'm not in a position to offer any solid info...

I do remember that their customer service was excellent and everything arrived on time and without any damage - sounds like you have a dilemma on your hands