SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....

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nicolasb

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Just been on the phone to PMC and the price of upgrading my SP1.7 to SP2-status is apparently in the £1,600-£1,700 range. £1700 at today's rate of exchange is roughly $3,330 - 3,330 US dollars, that is, not Canadian. That's about two thirds of the price of a brand new SP2 (or of what the price would be if it were bought in america). Just out of morbid curiosity, how does this compare to the US price for the upgrade?

I also enquired about the cost of upgrading to the most recent version of the SP1.7 firmware (as I'm considering going from 5 speakers to 7 and would like to be able to decode Dolby Digital EX without engaging THX mode). It apparently isn't possible for end-users to perform this operation themselves in the UK; doing so invalidates the warranty. So to change 1 EPROM chip (or is it 2?) I would have to send the processor to PMC's factory and pay them £88.12 - roughly $172.50 US. Again, I'm curious as to how this compares to the american cost....

MOZ

Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #1 on: 15 Jan 2007, 04:10 pm »
Hi, nicolasb

I upgraded my SP1.7 to a SP2 from France and it costed me £990 !!!
 :o

Slingshotx

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #2 on: 15 Jan 2007, 04:37 pm »
Just been on the phone to PMC and the price of upgrading my SP1.7 to SP2-status is apparently in the £1,600-£1,700 range.

Ouch that's a fair chunk of cash, I was hoping upgrades were going to be cheaper than that, makes old TAG prices look almost reasonable.

If you take a look at the upgrade doc on Bryston's web site (http://www.bryston.ca/BrystonSite05/pdfs/PREAmplifiers/SP1_7toSP2Upgrade.pdf) a 1.7 -> 2.0 upgrade is US$1,195.00 + shipping, so may be worth paying to get it shipped back to the U.S, or maybe a holiday in Canada sometime?

Slingshot

bobgenie

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #3 on: 15 Jan 2007, 06:11 pm »
Yes I think PMC are taking the mick a bit.  I got a similar quote which includes a six week wait.  They recently put their prices for new amps up as well - that'll be about the same time that the exchange rate was going in a different direction  :o I understand that they've gotta make a profit and that's fair enough but it's typical UK manufacturers getting up their own arse a bit.  I've got all Bryston gear and PMC speakers which I love and ain't gonna change but the price differentials are a bit irritating.

thxultra

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #4 on: 15 Jan 2007, 11:34 pm »
Might be worth while contacting bryston direct about upgrading sp1.7 firmware as when i had my sp1 Shane Parfitt sent me some beta firmware to try which involved opening it up and swapping out 2 chips.

Its very easy to do and no warranty issues were mentioned.

Phil A

Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jan 2007, 01:02 am »
Might be worth while contacting bryston direct about upgrading sp1.7 firmware as when i had my sp1 Shane Parfitt sent me some beta firmware to try which involved opening it up and swapping out 2 chips.

Its very easy to do and no warranty issues were mentioned.

Your issue is not related to the original post.  With the SP 1.7, upgrades involved a couple of chips.  Upgrading from the SP 1.7 to the SP-2 involves all new digital boards.

nicolasb

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #6 on: 18 Jan 2007, 05:23 pm »
Might be worth while contacting bryston direct about upgrading sp1.7 firmware as when i had my sp1 Shane Parfitt sent me some beta firmware to try which involved opening it up and swapping out 2 chips.

Its very easy to do and no warranty issues were mentioned.

Your issue is not related to the original post.  With the SP 1.7, upgrades involved a couple of chips.  Upgrading from the SP 1.7 to the SP-2 involves all new digital boards.

Erm... I actually talked about both of those things in my original post. :)

More generally: I have to wonder whether Bryston is really doing itself any favours by allowing PMC to charge that kind of mark-up on Bryston equipment and services.

It's probably unrealistic to expect price parity between the US and UK. There's going to a be small premium for fitting a 230V/50Hz power supply rather than the more common 115V/60Hz version. There's the actual cost of physically shipping the stuff to the UK. There's import duty. And then there's VAT - american prices are quoted without tax, while UK prices include 17.5% tax. And, of course, it's not unreasonable for a distributor to make a little bit of money on the transaction - 10% say. If we were looking at a mark-up of 40 or even 50%, I might regard that as reasonable. But when consumers see a piece of Bryston kit in the UK that costs double what it costs in the US, this just looks like gouging; and it doesn't make Bryston itself look good.

Even with all the excuses for high prices that I mentioned before, there's always the counter-example of the Paradigm Servo-15 subwoofer. Paradigm is a Canadian company, like Bryston. The Servo-15 sub (plus control box) used to sell for $1500 in america. In Britain (at a time when the £/$ exchange rate was lower than it is now) it sold for just £600. This was an unusual case; Richer Sounds was both distributor and sole retailer, and they imported them in large numbers - 100 or so at a time in a big shipping container. But if anyone ever tries to argue that american kit necessarily must be far more expensive in the Uk than it is in the USA, the Servo 15 is ample proof that they're wrong.

It's possible, I suppose, that upgrading an SP1.7 to an SP2 is an operation PMC people are not able to carry out themselves, thus requiring the processor to cross the Atlantic Ocean in two directions as part of the process. If that's not the case then I think they have some nerve charging close to three times the american upgrade price. I also have to question why it is that Bryston are happy for end-users to upgrade SP1.7 firmware themselves without it constituting a warranty violation, while PMC are not. :(


johnsosn

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #7 on: 18 Jan 2007, 05:54 pm »
Hi,
I have been lurking on these forums for over a year now, mainly interested in bryston.
I feel the need to ad to the posts here because I'm in agreement.
I have spent over £50,000 on my  system in the past three years, I would have loved to have purchased Bryston.
I frankly feel disgusted by the price difference between U.K and U.S and have always purchased my second choice because of this.
If it were possible, I'd buy in the states with U.K spec.
Sadly it's not.
Regards
Simon

bobgenie

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #8 on: 18 Jan 2007, 09:02 pm »
When I spoke to PMC they quoted something like £1280 plus VAT let's call it £1500.  The unit 'does' have to be returned to Bryston and therefore the whole process takes about 6 weeks.   So they are certainly adding a fairly steep mark up - by todays exchange rates about £900 for shipping and handling  :lol: :nono:

It does seem odd that Bryston are prepared to ship out the SP1.7 upgrade chips and allow us to fit them without invalidating the warranty whereas PMC have made their own rules on this.  Having said that I'd be relatively happy to pay PMC the £80 to get the firmware updated when and if I decide not to get it upgraded to SP2.

Bob

nicolasb

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jan 2007, 10:31 am »
When I spoke to PMC they quoted something like £1280 plus VAT let's call it £1500. 

The person I spoke to did mention that the price had recently changed. That was presumably a £100-£200 increase at a time when the £/$ exchange rate is rising ever higher and should be driving the price down.

Quote from: bobgenie
The unit 'does' have to be returned to Bryston and therefore the whole process takes about 6 weeks.

I suppose that makes the cost a little less outrageous. But the total cost of sending the processor privately to Canada by insured courier, having Bryston do the upgrade, and then paying for a second insured courier to ship it back, would still be an awful lot less. (If that were allowed, which I'm sure it isn't).

Quote from: MOZ
upgraded my SP1.7 to a SP2 from France and it costed me £990 !!!

Certainly difficult to understand why it should cost £700 more in Britain than it does in France.  :(

Slingshotx

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jan 2007, 12:53 pm »
When I spoke to PMC they quoted something like £1280 plus VAT let's call it £1500.  The unit 'does' have to be returned to Bryston and therefore the whole process takes about 6 weeks.   So they are certainly adding a fairly steep mark up - by todays exchange rates about £900 for shipping and handling  :lol: :nono:

Bob

I've dealt with PMC a fair bit and always found them an excellent company to deal with,  but there is no way I'm paying them 900 quid to forward a parcel to Canada, let's face it I'd already have to pay to ship to Luton so I could almost as easily ship to Canada.

This is getting close to the amount I paid for my SP1.7 (second hand) in the first place, so no way am I paying that, I'm wondering if it's worth finding the distributor in France who'll do it for less than 1K and ship it to France or another EU country?

Slingshot

Levi

Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jan 2007, 02:26 pm »
I was just browsing but how much is the new Bryston SP2?

Just been on the phone to PMC and the price of upgrading my SP1.7 to SP2-status is apparently in the £1,600-£1,700 range. £1700 at today's rate of exchange is roughly $3,330 - 3,330 US dollars, that is, not Canadian. That's about two thirds of the price of a brand new SP2 (or of what the price would be if it were bought in america). Just out of morbid curiosity, how does this compare to the US price for the upgrade?

I also enquired about the cost of upgrading to the most recent version of the SP1.7 firmware (as I'm considering going from 5 speakers to 7 and would like to be able to decode Dolby Digital EX without engaging THX mode). It apparently isn't possible for end-users to perform this operation themselves in the UK; doing so invalidates the warranty. So to change 1 EPROM chip (or is it 2?) I would have to send the processor to PMC's factory and pay them £88.12 - roughly $172.50 US. Again, I'm curious as to how this compares to the american cost....

nicolasb

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #12 on: 22 Jan 2007, 09:16 pm »
I was just browsing but how much is the new Bryston SP2?

Not sure, to be honest. The last time I was paying attention to the price of new Bryston devices was before the switch-over from the SP1.7 to the SP2. At that time the SP1.7 was selling for £4725 in the UK, which, at today's exchange rate, is roughly $9340 US. But I wouldn't be surprised if the price had gone up a bit since then.

In the States it's $4995, I think. (That's MSRP, of course; the street price will be lower).

bobgenie

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jan 2007, 10:08 pm »
Has anybody actually asked Bryston if an individual can send their SP1.7 direct to Canada for the upgrade to SP2?  I also have family in Canada. What if I sent my 1.7 to them and they took it or sent it to Bryston?  Would that be acceptable to Bryston?  I'd really rather do the business with PMC but I won't pay what they're asking which is a disgrace - I'd be happy to pay PMC the £990 which was paid to the French distributor and at that I imagine they would still make a profit.  Perhaps JT has an answer? 

I want this done and am prepared to pay a sensible sum as I know a fair few others are too.  Perhaps PMC can re-think their prices on this upgrade.

James Tanner

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #14 on: 30 Jan 2007, 04:19 pm »
Hi All,

I spoke to PMC and they are OK with customers sending their SP1's or SP1.7's directly to Bryston for an SP2 upgrade.
Be aware though that all shipping costs, duty and taxes will be the responsibliity of the sender.
If anyone wishes to go ahead with this please contact Cam at Bryston - cmontreuil@bryston.ca

james

bobgenie

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #15 on: 30 Jan 2007, 05:48 pm »
Hi All,

I spoke to PMC and they are OK with customers sending their SP1's or SP1.7's directly to Bryston for an SP2 upgrade.
Be aware though that all shipping costs, duty and taxes will be the responsibliity of the sender.
If anyone wishes to go ahead with this please contact Cam at Bryston - cmontreuil@bryston.ca

james


James,

Many thanks indeed.  And thanks also to PMC for making an exception.  The fact is that I like many others will go the extra mile to continue to support Bryston and PMC because the quality of the product brings a smile to our faces.  I'm pleased that you and PMC have gone the extra mile in this case too.  I'll be in touch very soon  :)

Cheers,

Bob

nicolasb

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #16 on: 30 Jan 2007, 09:47 pm »
And thanks also to PMC for making an exception.  The fact is that I like many others will go the extra mile to continue to support Bryston and PMC because the quality of the product brings a smile to our faces.  I'm pleased that you and PMC have gone the extra mile in this case too.  I'll be in touch very soon  :)

In what sense exactly has PMC "gone the extra mile"? They've promised that, if you organise an upgrade in a way that requires them to do absolutely nothing at all, they won't complain about that. Do you really regard that as a shining example of excellent service?

Don't get me wrong, it's good news, and kudos to Bryston for organising it; but I don't think PMC deserves much credit for for saying "if you decide not to allow us to rip you off by charging you over £900 for doing nothing except send a parcel to Canada and back, then we promise not to give you a hard time." I think that should be a given, really.

bobgenie

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Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #17 on: 30 Jan 2007, 10:04 pm »
And thanks also to PMC for making an exception.  The fact is that I like many others will go the extra mile to continue to support Bryston and PMC because the quality of the product brings a smile to our faces.  I'm pleased that you and PMC have gone the extra mile in this case too.  I'll be in touch very soon  :)

In what sense exactly has PMC "gone the extra mile"? They've promised that, if you organise an upgrade in a way that requires them to do absolutely nothing at all, they won't complain about that. Do you really regard that as a shining example of excellent service?

Don't get me wrong, it's good news, and kudos to Bryston for organising it; but I don't think PMC deserves much credit for for saying "if you decide not to allow us to rip you off by charging you over £900 for doing nothing except send a parcel to Canada and back, then we promise not to give you a hard time." I think that should be a given, really.


I agree that the kudos should go to Bryston and James in particular, but the reality is that when the question was asked the response from Bryston 'and' PMC was rapid and provided us the opportunity to get on and do it.  It would have been all too easy to continue moaning about the price differentials and the exhorbitant handling fee - and yes I was also disgusted at the price quoted - but where's the value in that?  They've given me the option that I requested and I'm happy to give them credit for it.

Levi

Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #18 on: 30 Jan 2007, 11:58 pm »
That's great to hear!  Goodluck Bob.

MOZ

Re: SP1.7 upgrades - I wish I didn't live in Britain....
« Reply #19 on: 31 Jan 2007, 07:12 am »
Hi All,

I spoke to PMC and they are OK with customers sending their SP1's or SP1.7's directly to Bryston for an SP2 upgrade.
Be aware though that all shipping costs, duty and taxes will be the responsibliity of the sender.
If anyone wishes to go ahead with this please contact Cam at Bryston - cmontreuil@bryston.ca

james


Be careful with that guys !
If there is a problem during the sending, you won't be covered by Bryston... and you may have to pay tax at the sending and at the returning...
PMC (or any other people working with Bryston) takes care of this by sending their machines with no tax added i think !!!!
You should think twice about it... or try to get the reel info (to be sure).

MOZ