PS Audio power conditioners - anyone?

NewBuyer · « **on:** 4 Jan 2007, 04:49 am »

While shopping for power conditioners lately, I see PS Audio with a large line of current and previous products (and their own forum at another audio site).

Since its a little early to be asking about their newest product line, I'm especially curious if anybody here has tried their older power products (Ultimate Outlet, UPC, Power Director, etc) and could please share their experience? Do you think their older products (vs the new line) are still worth looking at, in the used market?

I see the older (and actually some of the current) PS Audio power units will filter only starting at 100kHz and above, which seems a bit high for a filter starting point (but I'm no expert in this)...

Thanks for any/all replies!

rollo · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 04:38 pm »

Newbuyer,
Have found Harvesters to be extremely effective on my front end.Use 2 units plugged in same circuit as CDP.much quieter and more info. from recordings with NO tradeoffs a rare thing with conditioners.Worth thier weight in gold in my opinion.I've tried numerous Conditioners in my system and not one except the Richard Grey was acceptable but it brought the soundstage foward a bit which I'm not found of.
When you see the blue LED light up you know noise is being totally removed how cool is that.
Give them a try I don't think you will be disappointed
rollo

SET Man · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 07:16 pm »

Hey!

I have been using my P600 Power Plant since early 2002.

Before I got the P600 I used to have an Adcom 515 II conditioner... it is now in my TV/second system in the living room.

It took me about a month deciding of what AC product I should get. And at the end the PS Audio Power Plant make the most sense to me. And with my system consisted of pair of SET amps, after calculation of how many watts I would need. The P600 is fit for the job.... I only use about 200 to 250 watts total with the rest for headroom

So, I took the 30 days trial offer and got the P600. Well, let's just say that 5 years later the P600 still power my entire audio system (TV/video is on it own filter) And if I remembered correctly the Power Plant is work on all frequency of noise and even immune to the broadband signal on the AC if there is any.... yeah sadly there are people who want to use the AC line as a transmition line for the broadband signal

The P600 is now discontinued and the new one is smaller and with higher power. But seem to be a different type of amp... class-D maybe? Not sure. But definitely more efficient of which is great!

As for other PS Audio stuffs... well, I'm not interested but their power product seem to be very good. Right now I'm very interested in their new Noise Harvester... I wonder how it work and it is really work?

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 07:29 pm »

Hey Buddy......Mike/topround just got a PS Audio Duet.....maybe you could compare your PS Audio to his new unit.....

SET Man · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 7 Jan 2007, 07:29 pm

Hey Buddy......Mike/topround just got a PS Audio Duet.....maybe you could compare your PS Audio to his new unit.....

Hey!

Well, at 90lbs I don't think I will carry the P600 around to the Rave anytime soon

Maybe he could bring his over. But of cause they are totally different in design.

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 7 Jan 2007, 07:35 pm

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 7 Jan 2007, 07:29 pm
Hey Buddy......Mike/topround just got a PS Audio Duet.....maybe you could compare your PS Audio to his new unit.....

Hey!

Well, at 90lbs I don't think I will carry the P600 around to the Rave anytime soon Maybe he could bring his over. But of cause they are totally different in design.

Take care,
Buddy

Maybe you next Mini-Rave....

AB · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 07:57 pm »

I have two UPC-200's and a P-1000. My amps are plugged into the two UPC's in High Current mode while the P1000 powers the sources and the preamps.

I have settled on 120 volts/60 HZ for output on the P1000. These settings work best to my ears. The Multiwaves have an effect on the sound just as PSA states but in my system the odd waveforms are audible through the speakers and they produce lam rattle noises in the various TFs in the preamps.

As for effects on the sound, well, the UPC's give my system a slightly quieter background which gives the highs and mids more presence and seperation. Do they restrict the amps' dynamics? Not that I can tell.

The P1000 has a similar effect on the other electronics.

I have tried running the preamps and sources without the P1000 and the amps wthout the UPC's and I prefer the PSA stuff added. The only issue I have noticed is that some torroidal TFs do not like the P1000. I don't know why this is as PSA insists their 60 Hz waveform is perfect, etc. but some pieces have exhibited increased hum from their TFs while plugged into the P1000. Maybe this is an effect of the P1000's balanced output, I do not know.

The new PSA stuff ( Power Plant Premier) looks to be very similar to the Exact Power pieces which seem to be well regarded by most people, at least as far as I have seen.

Of course PSA insists the new stuff improves upon the old stuff by a ginourmous amount but that's to be expected. There are quite a few posts on various boards about the new products. Some are very positive while others not so. Fans seem to come up often as negatives with the new PPP.

If I was going to replace my PSA stuff tomorrow I would look at Exact Power, BPT and Equitech.

Gordy · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 08:05 pm »

The current PS Audio Duets http://www.psaudio.com/products/duet_power_center.asp are probably the best deal out there right now! Common and differential mode filtering, voltage and spike protection, 15a current... you would be very hard pressed to diy something for the price and it certainly wouldn't be nearly as compact!
For $60 -$70 you could diy some Felix filters and they'd do about the same job but, lack the various protection circuits.

SET Man · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: AB on 7 Jan 2007, 07:57 pm

The only issue I have noticed is that some torroidal TFs do not like the P1000. I don't know why this is as PSA insists their 60 Hz waveform is perfect, etc. but some pieces have exhibited increased hum from their TFs while plugged into the P1000. Maybe this is an effect of the P1000's balanced output, I do not know.

Hey!

AB, I don't have any of those type of transformer in my system. But I think those type of transformer doesn't seem to like having balanced power feeding it. Maybe?

I got my P600 before that multiwave thing came out. But I didn't care. I tried my with different sinwave but found that I'm more comfortable with the good old 60Hz

I don't know about their new Power Plant. But I wish their kept the P600 in production if you ask me.

BTW... the P1000 is a monster. Do you have a dedicated 20A line feeding it?

Take care,
Buddy

HAL · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 08:42 pm »

Did some measurements on the PS Audio P300 and ExactPower EP-15A that I have. The output sinewave distortion of the P300 is 0.1%THD with all loads running. With the same input, the EP-15A was about 2.8%THD, without loads. Our AC line distortion runs about 6% in the house. All measurements were made with a Fluke 43B power line analyzer.

Got to see the new Power Plant Premiere at RMAF. The unit measures the AC line distortion at input and output. With the entire system running on the one unit, the input was 3.6%THD. The output AC was 0.3%THD. That is very good.

Toroidal transformer hum can also come from DC on the AC line. CI Audio has a new product to eliminate DC on the power line. Dusty is I believe showing this unit at CES this week. Hope to get to try one soon.

AB · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 09:11 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 7 Jan 2007, 08:14 pm

Quote from: AB on 7 Jan 2007, 07:57 pm
The only issue I have noticed is that some torroidal TFs do not like the P1000. I don't know why this is as PSA insists their 60 Hz waveform is perfect, etc. but some pieces have exhibited increased hum from their TFs while plugged into the P1000. Maybe this is an effect of the P1000's balanced output, I do not know.

Hey!

AB, I don't have any of those type of transformer in my system. But I think those type of transformer doesn't seem to like having balanced power feeding it. Maybe?

I got my P600 before that multiwave thing came out. But I didn't care. I tried my with different sinwave but found that I'm more comfortable with the good old 60Hz

I don't know about their new Power Plant. But I wish their kept the P600 in production if you ask me.

BTW... the P1000 is a monster. Do you have a dedicated 20A line feeding it?

Take care,
Buddy

The P1000 runs only the preamps and the sources so at the most it's outputting only 150-200 watts. It never gets warmer than a touch above tepid. The whole system happens to be on dedicated subpanel not by design but by luck. The stereo is housed in an addition that has its own panel with four breakers - two for the outlets, one for the baseboard heater that I disconnected and one for the room lighting.

I have spoken with Barrows about the hum and the audible Multiwaves and he assured me these were unusual. I asked if he thought the unit was having a problem and he suggested that it was an easy task to check by measuring the voltages at the outlets for an imbalance. If the "amp" that produces the regenerated AC was having any problems it would show up in the voltages. I checked them and they equaled 120 but with a very slight difference - 60.4 and 59.6. Barrows thought this was in tolerence.

So I don't know why I can hear the multiwaves and I only suspect that some TFs buzz a bit with balanced power. With the setup I have now I hear nothing of these as long as I run 60Hz.

Different voltages have an effect on the bass punch. 115 volts is not as "punchy" as 120.

rollo · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 08:50 pm »

SETMAN,
The Harvesters have a unique way of filtering,they don't.What they do is convert line noise to energy and use that energy to light the LED.thus burning it away.Great concept never been done this way before.By burning it away as energy nothing goes back into the line.
As I said previously I use 2 on the same circuit as my CDP to great effect.Doesn't seem to take anything away just gives you more of what you have.Manf. reccomends multiple Harvesters for best effect.
rollo

Occam · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 09:36 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 9 Jan 2007, 08:50 pm

SETMAN,
The Harvesters have a unique way of filtering,they don't.What they do is convert line noise to energy and use that energy to light the LED.thus burning it away.Great concept never been done this way before.By burning it away as energy nothing goes back into the line.

The technique has been around for over 40yrs. What is unique is PS's blinky light; sure is mesmerizing.

Quote

As I said previously I use 2 on the same circuit as my CDP to great effect.Doesn't seem to take anything away just gives you more of what you have.Manf. reccomends multiple Harvesters for best effect.
rollo

Best effect for who? The consumer or the vendor? A cynic might posit that additional efficacy on the same line might imply a marketing, rather than a technical decision regarding implementation. This elicits tremendous admiration from the capitalist in me.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jan 2007, 11:07 pm »

I can't find any info on exactly what frequencies these Harvesters are filtering, or the dB reduction for these frequencies. Does anybody here happen to know?

DSK · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Jan 2007, 03:31 am »

Quote from: Occam on 9 Jan 2007, 09:36 pm

Quote
As I said previously I use 2 on the same circuit as my CDP to great effect.Doesn't seem to take anything away just gives you more of what you have.Manf. reccomends multiple Harvesters for best effect.
rollo
Best effect for who? The consumer or the vendor? A cynic might posit that additional efficacy on the same line might imply a marketing, rather than a technical decision regarding implementation. This elicits tremendous admiration from the capitalist in me.

Paul, I must admit to having had the same thought. Is it possible/likely that a noise level above a certain figure provides more energy than can be 'burned off' by the one LED? If so, it would seem that there would be an advantage to adding a second Harvester on very noisy lines, but not on minimally noisy lines? I am slightly intrigued by the Harvesters as I like the idea of reducing noise with passive devices that are out of the direct power signal to the components.

For the last few years I have been using 2 PSA HC UO's in my system, one on source and the other on pre-amp (power amp direct to wall). I have found they clean up the top end, providing more ease to the music and more inner detail to come through. The soundstaging also seems a little more open and natural. Results on power amps were varied, the Plinius SA100/3 class A amp loved it, but an AKSA N+ sounded 'dead', 'flat' and 'boring' when connected to it.

The vacant power outlet on each HC UO would be the ideal spot to add a Harvester but, as I'm unlikely to get to audition them in Melbourne, I'll probably keep my wallet in my pocket.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Jan 2007, 06:09 am »

I have a great experience with a PS product, the UPC-200HB. I bought it for a secondary set up and when I moved to my new house, I had to tackle an annoying DC induced hum that made my BPT 2.5 signature hum sporadically. When I spoke to the designer, he told me about the possibility of DC leakage in my circuit and told me the solutions, one of them designing a massively grounded dedicated line, something which I could have, but decided against.

then,

I realized I had this unit not really plugged into anything important and then, decided to try it on the BPT and holy molly, it got rid of the hum almost 98% as we speak. Before, when I used to pass by the BPT in the middle of the night, it used to make this most erie sound, but now, it is gone. This is the first time that I have become convinced that a "black box" can do its job right.

The UPC-200HB is also high current or almost technically non current limiting, thus, paired with the BPT, it will become a "transportable" dedicated line.

But,

be also aware that some people or manufacturers do not recommend PS power products to come between their products and the wall outlet, especially if they manufacture current demanding units.

The BPT with the UPC-200HB has not produced audible degradations, or maybe it did, but cause a pleasant distortion. I cannot tell.

Bucky · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 02:46 am »

I have a Quintet. Best purchase that I made last year. Dramatically improved my noise floor and I also notice no difference when plugging my power amp into it via the wall (this is huge for me as plugging it into the wall did not make my wife happy as she had to look at the large plug)