What deep water fish oil pill and multivitamine is best for 40 something male?

woodsyi · « **on:** 2 Jan 2007, 06:48 pm »

My sister and my Californian brother in law recommend that I start taking these. I don't take any right now and I guess taking them would not hurt. What are the best products? I eat relatively rich but balanced food and drink a fair share of red wine/beer/spirit. I hardly eat sweets and exercise moderately. Would Centrum suffice?

pacifico · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 06:53 pm »

Centrumn doesn't contain the omega 3s. You'll definitely need some type of gel cap. These are good for just about anything. The only nutraceuticals I take are tea and omega threes from GNC. I've had a horrible time with an ear infection and they really help. If you have allergies, these are great too. Turns off just about any immune-driven pro-imflammatory response. Oh and good for your heart and brain and prostate. I take two caps a day. Keep in fridge regardless of brand.

aerius · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 06:57 pm »

The question is why? Unless you have some kind of condition to treat or you've been diagnosed with some kind of nutritional defficiency I can't see the point of taking supplements. If you do, then the first step is adjusting your diet & lifestyle, and if that doesn't work then consider taking the supplements. IMO, and of course I'm not a doctor, popping pills when you don't need them is just a waste of money, and may actually have negative impacts on your health.

pacifico · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:07 pm »

There are tons and tons and tons of references assuring that omega threes have significant positive impacts on peoples health. i am not about to get into another long-winded discussion but suffice it to say, they are not part of breast formuls formulations and I know more about the biochemistry of these molecules than I care to. PM if interested. Also, I don't recomend just about anything, these are really specail and aside from eating fish twice a day, a vital part of everyone's diet. Unlike cholesterol, your body lacks the ability to make these or at least does so from linolenic acid grudingly and only if that is available. Ironiclly, your retinas are composed mostly of the omega threes other wise you'd see nothing in the dark. Google rhodopsin and cholesterol and omega threes if interested. Thanks for reading.

woodsyi · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:10 pm »

Well, you know, it's like, I am, getting old.

I don't have any major problems but I can't run as fast, jump as high nor heal as fast as I used to. My joints are stiffer and muscles pull more. I am not looking for a quick fix -- I am just wondering if I can improve my "wellness" with supplements (meaning I will do the balanced diet and exercise thing too).

Pacifico,

Do you mean fish oil only or with multivitamins? What fish oil does not contain mercury? GNC? What about this http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Alaska-Omega-3-1000mg-Capsules/dp/B000638OO0?

ctviggen · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:21 pm »

You could also use flax oil or a combination of flax oils with other oils, if you're trying to avoid mercury.

Personally, I feel better when taking a multivitamin w/o iron, coenzyme Q10 (supposedly beneficial for heart disease), and Omega 3s with either flax or fish oils. I have a book entitled "The great cholesterol con", and there are studies indicating Omega 3s and co-Q10 have benefits.

pacifico · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:29 pm »

Multis cant hurt but they are mainly designed to boost your metabolism. The omega threes are a vital part of may cell membranes, especially nervous system cells. You can't get these as part of a multi b/c they are liquid and air-sensitive. Tht's why I recommend the fridge.

As for mecury, this appears to be an overblown concern. There are more than a few studies that show that the omega 3 benefit far outweighs the risk of mercury. This goes unless you're pregnant and even then it's a margin call. BTW, if you're worried about any mercury look up methylmercurycysteine and methylmercury chloride. These are the most commonly accepted potential mercury complexes in fish. The cysteine analog is currently favored in the literature. The dissociation of the mecury ion from either complex is abyssmal and lowest for the cysteine complex. I think this was from an article in Science a few years ago. You don't really have much to worry about.

If you happen to find omega threes that meet GLP or GMP certifications, let me know. I think GNC has to by default as it prepares these things for human consumption but not sure. GMP and GLP are pharmaceutical and QC standards for drug preparation. These designations are sometimes preceeded by a little c cor "current".

pacifico · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:32 pm »

CoQ is great too. Flax is most certainly an option. BTW, EDTA, a common food preservative will take care of any mercury in your bloodstream along with a protein called albumin, a cofactor called biotin or just about anything with a free sulfur. point is the risk is low unless you inhale mercury vapor all day long.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:34 pm »

I buy my Fish Oil online for iHerb.com; I take RxOmega-3 Factors. My suggestion is to avoid the stuff from GNC. Read the label before you buy, most of the stuff you can buy at mass market stores is low in EPA & DHA. It's also not molecularly distilled. Molecular distellation is important to remove toxic metals, etc. Nowadays fish, even from the "cleanest" waters has a high level of toxic metals, so much so that the Govt advises pregnant women to limit their fish intake. You should take stuff that's "pharmaceutical grades," and at least half of the fat in each cap should be a combination Eicoasapentaenoic Acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA). Those are the substances in Fish Oil that "deliver the goods." There's clinical evidence that a heavy dose of this can reduce sudden cardiac death by 53%, improve your cholesterol and improve mental functions. Fish oil is an antixident with over 100 times the potency of vitamin C and crosses the blood barrier much more readily.

eric the red · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:53 pm »

Quote from: aerius on 2 Jan 2007, 06:57 pm

The question is why? Unless you have some kind of condition to treat or you've been diagnosed with some kind of nutritional defficiency I can't see the point of taking supplements. If you do, then the first step is adjusting your diet & lifestyle, and if that doesn't work then consider taking the supplements. IMO, and of course I'm not a doctor, popping pills when you don't need them is just a waste of money, and may actually have negative impacts on your health.

How old are you Aerius? I too am on the far side of 40, am fairly athletic and am well aware of my diet/lifestyle choices as 50 fast approaches. Many of us at this age are looking at our long-term health and what others in the same boat may have helped them at this age to feel better.

pacifico · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 07:55 pm »

Rob,

This will be interesting to check out. Not so familiar with the term "molecularly distilled" and I strongly suspect this is a marketing tool as you can't purify EPA or DHA by distillation. Heat most certainly destroys EPA and DHA and you always have heat involved in a distillation process. If you want these ultra pure you can always go to avanti polar lipids

. Be prepared to spend BIG $$$$$$. These guys are the tops in the lipid market foir research. Martek I believe gets their DHA from algae cultures. This is only a few years old and I think you pay a premium.

I'll have to remember this link for myself:

http://consumer.martek.com/findinglifesdha/

This is probrably the best source I can think of and wasn't aware of it until I did a little homework.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:01 pm »

No marketing hype- it's similar to reverse osmosis and doesn't use heat. It doesn't "purify" EPA/DHA, it removes things like dioxin & mercury. It's more expensive than just leaving the stuff in there but much safer. Bear in mind that if the liver & flesh of a fish contains mercury, the oil will be worse as many fish will be used. And many of the benefits of fish oil require high doses (eg you should take about 3 grams per day for your heart, 12 grams per day can help clear up acne).

The stuff that's not distilled has one other major drawback- the taste/smell. With the GNC stuff you will experience "repeating", or burping up the fishy taste. It's not pleasant at all. That's often because it's rancid. You don't get much of that with the better stuff.

One other thing to note: some research indicates Fish Oil is more effective than statins, but beware of studies, too. There's a pretty vast bulk of literature on the effects of Fish Oil; most of it positive, especially European studies. Now at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, the American "Big Pharma" has waged a war on supplements and has conducted some bogus studies with the aim of discrediting them and fattening their own bottom line. Before someone says "oh, I just heard the latest research shows it doesn't do anything" avail yourself of the larger body of information.

woodsyi · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:13 pm »

This page has good information. http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/Omega3FattyAcidscs.html I am no Terrapin lover but I assume folks there know what they are talking about.

Now, how do I know how much O-3 to take to balance my O-6 intake?

pacifico · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:14 pm »

Thanks for the term clarification. I am actually very skeptical myself. I can tell you that the GNC stuff has not been bad for me over the past year or so. I am thinking about trying the Martek stuff though.

12 grams a day seems a bit high and there can be physiological consequences to taking too much. I seem to remeber a study where they were injecting gobs of DHA in a clinical trial for depression and there were were clinical problems noted. For the life of me I can't remember but it had to do with circulatory function.

I really do like these and like I mentioned earlier. This and tea are about it for me. I think John Casler has a hard core vitamin regimen that keeps him in great shape and I have talked with him before. He has detailed his hardcore antioxidant regimen here and the omega threes are a part if I am not mistaken. He uses Vitamin C as part of his post-workout recovery routine. Another great choice as it is short but fast acting.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:20 pm »

Well, when I've run out of the stuff I normally buy (usually RX Omega or Nordic Naturals) I've made do with the GNC stuff, and to be fair the only "problem" I've noticed is the fishy aftertaste. Compare the labels of GNC stuff and the premium stuff like Nordic Naturals and you'll see the main difference is that the latter contains much more EPA/DHA. It costs a bit more per bottle but it's actually cheaper per gram- you're simply paying for more of the good stuff and less filler.

Right now I don't remember the ration of O3 to O6, but most supplements contain the proper balance already.

I generally take 5-6 grams daily, but of course if you're on blood thinners you have to watch that. So far I haven't sprouted gills!

12 grams is a bit much, that would only be a short term dosage to deal with a specific issue (eg acne).

pacifico · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:29 pm »

The O3/O6 ratio is debatable. Two GNCs a day certainly haven't hurt me. Standard bloodwork should help you determine if you're taking too much but again...it's anyone's guess. Try and do search for the ratio in the japanese diet. These guys and gals don't get certain types of cancers until they come here and dietary fat is greatly implicated.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:39 pm »

I agree. I'm not sure if there is an optimum ratio; you need both, and I haven't ever worried about it.

smargo · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:39 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 2 Jan 2007, 06:48 pm

My sister and my Californian brother in law recommend that I start taking these. I don't take any right now and I guess taking them would not hurt. What are the best products? I eat relatively rich but balanced food and drink a fair share of red wine/beer/spirit. I hardly eat sweets and exercise moderately. Would Centrum suffice?

One of the best fo's i have taken and still take consistently is by "icelandic health" - they are one of the more expensive grades on the market -
http://www.icelandic-omega-3.com/ - i have been very impressed by their product and see benefits - particularly in lower colesterol and less aches and pains.

regards,
smargo

tex-amp · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:48 pm »

Quote from: aerius on 2 Jan 2007, 06:57 pm

The question is why? Unless you have some kind of condition to treat or you've been diagnosed with some kind of nutritional defficiency I can't see the point of taking supplements. If you do, then the first step is adjusting your diet & lifestyle, and if that doesn't work then consider taking the supplements. IMO, and of course I'm not a doctor, popping pills when you don't need them is just a waste of money, and may actually have negative impacts on your health.

Because the RDA amounts are the minimums needed to prevent deficiency related diseases. No one has done research on the optimum amounts.

aerius · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jan 2007, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: eric the red on 2 Jan 2007, 07:53 pm

How old are you Aerius? I too am on the far side of 40, am fairly athletic and am well aware of my diet/lifestyle choices as 50 fast approaches. Many of us at this age are looking at our long-term health and what others in the same boat may have helped them at this age to feel better.

Haven't hit the big 30 yet so I'm still a youngling, but I've seen my parents, family friends, and co-workers go through the whole aging thing. My opinion's probably influenced a lot by the fact that most people I know are looking for a quick fix instead of putting in the work to make actual diet & lifestyle changes, they think they can continue as before and pop a pill that'll make everything ok. The other part is my GF was a national level athlete and still performs at a high level, I've seen the work and dedication it takes to maintain her level of fitness and continue staying healthy, and frankly most people can't be bothered to put in 1% of the work that she does.

That's why I emphasize the diet & lifestyle improvements first, that's the foundation on which everything else is built. Get the foundations right and everything else becomes a whole lot easier, and going the other way, if the foundations aren't good then it's not worth building on, and all the supplements and miracle pills in the world aren't going to improve things.