Hot tip for Tube rolling in the Candela

6771own · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 07:24 am »

Rosconey, you are the MAC DADDY of Candela tube rolling! I've been reading your posts here and on Audio Asylum since 5/06 and you're quite the Candela guru. I completely agree with you about the CBS/Hytron 5814's. They are absolutely horrid! In fact, if any of you have any of these lying around I'll take them off your hands and give you some $$$'s- as a humanitarian gesture. This is to keep you from being exposed to these evil tubes that make magical music.

jackthecat · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 08:50 am »

Quote from: Eugene2 on 11 Jan 2007, 04:50 am

Bunky, put the JJ Tesla's in tonight, very nice indeed! I was listening to a very well recorded CD Bill Frisell Blues Dream. If I did not have the RCA 12AU7A ECC82 cleartops I would stick with this tube, but the cleartops are outstanding. The opening guitar pluck made my jaw drop with the cleartops (he was in the room). The Tesla's sounded slightly high fi (probably because the balance became slightly brighter) in comparison. Try the RCA's if you cannot find them try the Tube Depot in Orlando (25.00 ea.)he had a few sets. It also convinced me to stay with my current setup it is that good. If you like a good demo recording with very realistic sound try Bill Frisell's CD, the music may have to grow on you...

I have been getting into a couple Bill Frisell albums lately and love them! Perfect with tubes ! Must get some more ! aa

rosconey · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 01:26 pm »

Quote from: 6771own on 21 Jan 2007, 07:24 am

Rosconey, you are the MAC DADDY of Candela tube rolling! I've been reading your posts here and on Audio Asylum since 5/06 and you're quite the Candela guru. I completely agree with you about the CBS/Hytron 5814's. They are absolutely horrid! In fact, if any of you have any of these lying around I'll take them off your hands and give you some $$$'s- as a humanitarian gesture. This is to keep you from being exposed to these evil tubes that make magical music.

yup -they sound like fingernails on a chalkboard while hungover-
i also heard they can kill cats and small animals and make children not listen to there parents-AGAIN I SAY AVOID THESE TUBES AT ALL COSTS-and if you have some get them out of the house asap -i will dispose of them for you for a moderate fee before they ruin your life and maybe even cost you your job

martinr · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 07:12 pm »

Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Martin

bunky · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 12:02 am »

Quote from: martinr on 21 Jan 2007, 07:12 pm

Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Martin

Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?

yo2tup · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 12:44 am »

If you can find them, I'd recommend the rare 1950's sylvania 12AU7 with black plates and a bent square getter. My amp came stock with JJ 12AU7 input tubes, and swapping them to the sylvanias transformed the amp to something in a totally different class. Not even close. These tubes are really somethign special I think. Someone on another forum discribed them as "the most human sounding 12au7's period." If you like vocals and instruments to sound "real" i'd give these tubes a try.

carusoracer · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 01:39 pm »

Disclaimer: I do not own a Candela PreAmp...

I do own a Odyssey Stratos Extreme SE w/EE Minimax PreAmp which uses 2 12AU7's.
I have only heard good things about this piece and would luv to hear, but for now my Minimax isn't going anywhere

The best results I had tube rolling 12AU7's is to first obtain what sonic signature you are going after.
Slam,low end extension,warmth,midrange and vocals,top end extension and extreme low level detail?

I listened to several newer tubes but ultimately ended up chasing the NOS tubes from the 50's and 60's. It is a lot of fun yet very frustrating to track them down,tested,matched and non microphonic. Once you have a good source you can experiment until your hearts content.

Here are my 3 favorites, good luck tracking them down:

59' ECC82 Valvo/Hamburg: Excellent soundstage,imaging and a clear window, no colorations to the sound

50's 5814 Raytheon Blackplate,triple mica,red printed label: Exquisite,rich midrange, good extension,balanced tube. Very affordable...

Mullard 10M with Gold Pins: not typical Mullard sound, extremely balanced top to bottom, excellent Macro and Micro details,very accurate portrayal, clean sound with a taught yet extended bass and airy highs. aa Very expensive and hard to find.

Other great tubes are early Brimar ECC82: spooky imaging and full sound, 50's Amperex 7316.
There are others, Siemens,Telefunken,Tungsram,but these fit my sonic tastes. YMMV

Happy Rollin'

martinr · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 06:16 pm »

Quote from: bunky on 24 Jan 2007, 12:02 am

Quote from: martinr on 21 Jan 2007, 07:12 pm
Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Martin
Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?

Hi Bunky,'

In my setup - Stratos monos SE, candela, gronenberg cabling the Tesla longplates produced more detail in the upper ranges but overall tonality and bass extension was lost compared to the original JJ's installed in the Candela.....I have re-installed the original tubes to get the warm, rich sound with slam back. I'm very happy with the original tubes but will try more tube rolling in the future.

Eugene2 · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 09:07 pm »

What happened to the tubes Alex was getting?

bunky · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 09:53 pm »

Quote from: martinr on 24 Jan 2007, 06:16 pm

Quote from: bunky on 24 Jan 2007, 12:02 am
Quote from: martinr on 21 Jan 2007, 07:12 pm
Hi Bunky,
I just installed the JJ/Tesla ECC802 12AU7 longplates in my candela. My initial impression is they are more "airy" on the top end and I'm hearing more inner detail in the higher frequencies. I may have lost a little slam in the lower frequencies (not sure yet), and I don't believe they play quite as loud as Klaus's original tubes. I'm wondering how long it takes these tubes to burn in? This is my first time tube rolling (never had tube gear before).. I'm thinking that after a few hours these may have reached their sonic bliss but am not sure - Can you or anyone else offer an opinion on this?

Thanks,
Martin
Hey Martin,how do they sound to you now after a few days ?

Hi Bunky,'

In my setup - Stratos monos SE, candela, gronenberg cabling the Tesla longplates produced more detail in the upper ranges but overall tonality and bass extension was lost compared to the original JJ's installed in the Candela.....I have re-installed the original tubes to get the warm, rich sound with slam back. I'm very happy with the original tubes but will try more tube rolling in the future.

Hey Martin, what Loudspeakers are you using ? our systems are very similar but not exactly the same, but our personal tastes may vary somewhat.i am using Gronberg TS premium Cables and i am using a beautiful Dark red Cherry pair of Lorelei's which produce a prodigous amount of bass and i love them dearly.my source is an Audio Aero Prima 24/192 MkII CD player,it is a tube unit but it is in no way shape or form laid back and provides plenty of detail and slam in my two channel rig. Alex @ Odyssey is going to get in a shipment of Cryroed Ei Elite Goldpin 12AU7s and as soon a Odyssey gets them they are going to ship a pair to me. you have some very nice gear and i am willing to Guess that your mono extreme SE's may not even be fully broken in yet. how many hours do you have on them ? try a few more types of tubes and see if you can find a flavor that you prefer.i agree that the stock JJ Tesla's that come with the Candela Sound great but the Candela is so receptive to tube rolling that it makes me want to try several other types to see if i can find a tube that will send my system to a even higher level. Enjoy....WCW III

martinr · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 10:08 pm »

Bunky,
I have the Lorelei's also (dark walnut). My Stratos extremes have about 320 hours on them - they have been powered up for a month. My front end is a Onkyo Integra 6 disc changer running through a DH labs silver sonic toslink cable into a channel Islands audio VDA 1 and VAC 1 Dac and power supply, DH labs RCA's into the Candela. Your front end is probably in a different league than mine.
I've also recently tried plugging in my SCE Harmonic Recovery device between the Candela and Mono's which degraded the sound a bit also, no reason to use it with this new system.

How much is Alex charging for the the cryoed tubes?

AlexG · « **Reply #31 on:** 26 Jan 2007, 08:27 pm »

I am still looking for a second tube alternative for the Candela...they have to be available in modest-large quantities, reasonably priced and most importantly they must sound very good. The idea remains to sell them directly to current and future Candela owners.

The Ei Elite Cryo treated 12AU7 is still in the works...the problem is we need to secure a modest quantity at least, and they need to come from the same batch. The potential source has been very slow in following up.

I have also been testing a different ECC82/12AU7 cryoed (no name at this point...yet), that has the qualifications I am looking for, and may become also a different alternative.

I will keep you posted.

Thank you,
Alex

bunky · « **Reply #32 on:** 26 Jan 2007, 09:00 pm »

Quote from: AlexG on 26 Jan 2007, 08:27 pm

I am still looking for a second tube alternative for the Candela...they have to be available in modest-large quantities, reasonably priced and most importantly they must sound very good. The idea remains to sell them directly to current and future Candela owners.

The Ei Elite Cryo treated 12AU7 is still in the works...the problem is we need to secure a modest quantity at least, and they need to come from the same batch. The potential source has been very slow in following up.

I have also been testing a different ECC82/12AU7 cryoed (no name at this point...yet), that has the qualifications I am looking for, and may become also a different alternative.

I will keep you posted.

Thank you,
Alex

Thanks for the update Alex

martinr · « **Reply #33 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 06:58 pm »

Will wait patiently Alex...in the meantime Ive ordered some RCA black plates and Hammond tubes off EBay...will post my impressions later.

Martin

martinr · « **Reply #34 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 12:02 am »

I just received the GE Hammond tubes 1960's vintage - 4 for 19.00 shipped.....OMG these are fantastic - mid range has more detail...acoustic guitars are better defined, vocals are more pronounced than before, I'm hearing more air in the vocals, more inner detail, Lyle Lovett Joshua Judges Ruth background vocals are better defined everything is more "there"..lower noise floor and bass is extended, theres a low end rumble that was not there with the Teslas...I'm hearing more of what the Loreleis are capable of. Ive only been playing these for an hour and I'm very impressed. After one hour of playing I would say a 5 to 10 percent overall sonic improvement - the Candela is awesome.

Martin

rosconey · « **Reply #35 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 12:23 am »

can i say i told ya so now or should i wait aa

next find a pair of yellow label baldwin tubes circa 60's-

or rca tripple mica black plates-
bolth are a tad cleaner imho

dont waste money on brimars imho-

avahifi · « **Reply #36 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 02:14 am »

Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #37 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 08:31 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 2 Feb 2007, 02:14 am

Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

....sounds so simple.....good tip....I gotta try that....

AlexG · « **Reply #38 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 02:24 pm »

Quote

Put tubes on flat movable surface, parallel to one end. Lift other end. With any luck at all, tubes will roll.

Good tip...make certain they don't roll off the surface to much and go down on the floor...they may not work as expected.

Regards,
Alex

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #39 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 12:32 am »

Hey , I don't have a Candela (Klaus/AlexG - when are you gonna' have on-board phono?), but do really like the new Electro-Harmonix Gold 12AU7's.

Objectively, they are phenominally quiet (mine were cryo'ed, don't know if that mattered)....the subjective thing about tone is another thing. I think they sound quite good and they are quite inexpensive ($13.99 I think I paid).

12AU7's were originally built for non-hifi applications....so buying NOS in this case is buying industrial-type tubes with little regard to sound quality (and maybe no regard to microphonics, either). Anyhow, in 12AU7's, I like the new stuff.

Anyhow - my opinion only - thanks for all the good tips on other 12AU7 tubes out there (that long plate JJ ECC802 longplate is really interesting, too)