Hot tip for Tube rolling in the Candela

brad1138 · « **Reply #140 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 09:20 pm »

Quote from: Chewbacca on 30 Sep 2021, 08:03 pm

Hey Brad,

I owned a Candela for about 5 or so years in my system, and rolled quite a few tubes over the years. I wrote this quick review to the new owner on some of the tubes I've had in the preamp:

Tubes are extremely subjective. A lot of it comes down to opinion, the quality of the tube gotten, your personal system and if it’s already warm, cold, bass heavy, etc. You can really balance out your system based on the tube you pick. What I’ve tried:

RCA Cleartop: great highs, and high end shimmer. I found them a little low and miss bass light. Didn’t have the punch I wanted. Just sounded unengaging to me. BORING.

Brimar: these are very similar to Mullards, except generally less expensive. Classic British tube! Great mids! Really punch where the cleartops don’t. But I think they’re missing the sub-sonic bass region. Top end is there, but they don’t extend as far as the RCAs. Perfect for rock music!

Amperex: My favorite tubes. They are very good all around. Probably the best for imaging. They have very good bass. May be lacking in mid details possibly? Very good for electronic music! I have a pair of 1960 USA Amperex's in my Dodd currently, with no plans to change.

CBS Hytrons: these guys are amazing! I had three pairs. BUT, I never had any that were in good condition. These are basically extinct, and if you can find a pair, I’d HIGHLY suggest it!

Telefunken: the most expensive tubes I had (in the Candela). Definitely one of the best. Possibly the most balanced of all the tubes. If they excel in anything I’d say micro detail, and a really balanced feel to them. They just do everything very well.

Maybe that's a little bit of a start for you! Again... YMMV, and my opinion may be the exact opposite of the next persons!

Also - I have no clue if they've changed the Candela over the years. If so, I believe it would be very minor updates. BUT I can nearly guarantee that the sound signature is almost identical.

Klaus said he doesn't suggest rolling tubes??... that doesn't sound like him

Yes, personally I always experience a little bit of tubes noise. I know some of it comes from the two radio stations close by... ones literally across the street from me, and ones a couple blocks away... Never would have thought to look for that when buying a house Sucks when playing guitar too.. sometimes I can literally jam along to the radio through my amp..

Thanks for the quick reply. I am very happy with it as is, but if I want to be picky, a little warmer/richer vocal/midrange would be what I am looking for. My Moabs are a very forward speaker, so less forward would be fine as well. I can't hear above about 12-14khz, so anything affecting the highs above that won't help me much. And I don't want to lose much if any bass.

After reading through the posts, the longplates seemed like a nice cheap "upgrade" but no one really spoke to their difference over stock, and the RCA Cleartops seemed like a very popular solid choice. But "I found them a little low and miss (mid?) bass light" would scare me a bit. I was also looking at the Amperex Bugle boys, but "lacking in mid detail" doesn't sound good. But that probably isn't compared to stock? Did you mean the Amperex Bugle boys?

Maybe I am remembering wrong on the Klaus thing.

Chewbacca · « **Reply #141 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 09:43 pm »

Whoops, yes I meant they were missing a bit of low and mids in the RCA's. Maybe I won't say "missing", it just didn't have the punch and dynamics that I wanted.

As far as the Amperex tubes go, actually looking back they were Holland Philips Miniwatt's. Which I cannot say for sure how closely these are to Bungle Boys, but I am near certain they hold the same general tone. I've had a few of the Amperex/Philips lines, 12ax7, 12au7, 6922, and 6x4 rectifiers. They've ALWAYS performed phenomenally. My current 7308 tubes (basically the higher tolerance versions of 6922 & 6DJ8 tubes... if I remember correctly) are outstanding... HUGE upgrade over the 6922 Gold Lions, which are pretty decent as far as new production goes.

But as far as my "lacking in mid detail" comment, this is STRICTLY comparing them to the Telefunkens which had the best mid detail of the bunch. I wouldn't say they were particularly worse than any of the other tubes... I honestly just had to try to think of something that they didn't absolutely excel in compared to the others.

Comparing them to the stock JJ tubes? It's laughable how much better they are. They'll be phenomenally better in the mids (regardless of my comment

), and everywhere else. Again... YMMV.

Tube rolling was one of the most enjoyable journeys I've had in HiFi... It can get expensive quick though! $100 here, $50 there, oop look just spent another $150 to try these out... it adds up

Chewbacca · « **Reply #142 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 09:47 pm »

What I basically did (which I have no regrets of) is I tried to go through every main line of tubes to get their flavor. I bought inexpensive used buggers off eBay for the experience. When I found the line I enjoyed most, I went ahead and bought some niiiiiiiice ones, knowing they would be a higher quality flavor of the tone I enjoyed...

brad1138 · « **Reply #143 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 10:16 pm »

At over $500/pr for the miniwatts, that is really more than I wanted to spend. I think I will pull the trigger on a pair of clear tops or bugle boys, both are in stock at ~$200/pr. I will likely also grab a pair of longplates, for contrast.

From your comments, the Amperex seems like the better option over the cleartop. I may pull the trigger on both before it is done...

Chewbacca · « **Reply #144 on:** 30 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm »

$500 for a miniWHAT?!?!?!

Wow okay... I think I got mine maybe 8 years ago on eBay for about $40... But it was a gamble purchase because the whole description of the tube was something like "nice tube, used, they work". I got them and they were nearly mint, with no hum at all. Guy didn't know what he had.

Before you go and spend that much on Cleartops (or any tubes) make sure to check eBay.

Here's quite a pair of Cleartops for less than $30: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115005203882?hash=item1ac6d825aa:g:A5oAAOSwWQ1hFovI

brad1138 · « **Reply #145 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: Chewbacca on 30 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm

$500 for a miniWHAT?!?!?!

Wow okay... I think I got mine maybe 8 years ago on eBay for about $40... But it was a gamble purchase because the whole description of the tube was something like "nice tube, used, they work". I got them and they were nearly mint, with no hum at all. Guy didn't know what he had.

Before you go and spend that much on Cleartops (or any tubes) make sure to check eBay.

Here's quite a pair of Cleartops for less than $30: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115005203882?hash=item1ac6d825aa:g:A5oAAOSwWQ1hFovI

Thank you! I bought them, how could I not for that price? I get nervous buying tubes from random eBay sellers, that is usually why I don't look there.

Chewbacca · « **Reply #146 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 05:16 pm »

I agree - It certainly is a gamble! But I'd say 75% of the time, I've gotten good tubes from eBay. Just need to look around a bit, and generally the good sellers always post test results from the tubes. Be aware though, a lot of those old testers were used for more... hmm, if it works or not purposes? For instance on some testers, they can test "good" in their specific parameters. Which, in an old 1960's military radio, I'm sure they are just fine! But on a system that we're trying to recreate the impossible ("real" music), the "good" rating can easily be well beyond the point of them being no good in a HiFi system.

Regardless; I hope they work out! If not, $30 is a pretty small investment

brad1138 · « **Reply #147 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 08:23 pm »

My 1st venture into tube was a 1st generation Schiit Freya. I tube rolled quite a bit with it. Then I realized it just sucked to start with...

It passive section was good, but the tube section was very noisy.

I think I will pick up a pair of longplates, it will help me have context in judging the Cleartops.

brad1138 · « **Reply #148 on:** 1 Oct 2021, 08:36 pm »

I found this sight and can not find any negative reviews for it. Very good price, but no option for matching the pair....

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-ecc802-12au7-jj-electronics-long-plate

Anyone ever bought from them before?

EDIT: I just got an email back from them, they don't match preamp tubes... at least these anyway. I asked is that because you feel it isn't necessary?

brad1138 · « **Reply #149 on:** 2 Oct 2021, 07:24 pm »

I bought the long plates anyway, at $15.75 each not much to complain about. Neither of the 1st 2 places I found that carried them offered matching.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #150 on:** 4 Oct 2021, 02:38 am »

Curveball:

Northern Electrics...$ 90 - 95. for a matched pair...LOVE them. They are like a match of perfect 60's NOS midrange with the control and dynamics of a modern tube.....just works wonders for me when not using my $ 1 K gold pins.....

brad1138 · « **Reply #151 on:** 4 Oct 2021, 06:20 am »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 4 Oct 2021, 02:38 am

Curveball:

Northern Electrics...$ 90 - 95. for a matched pair...LOVE them. They are like a match of perfect 60's NOS midrange with the control and dynamics of a modern tube.....just works wonders for me when not using my $ 1 K gold pins.....

Thanks Klaus. Like these? https://www.thetubestore.com/northern-electric-12au7?quantity=2&additional_options=3

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #152 on:** 4 Oct 2021, 09:15 am »

Tyson · « **Reply #153 on:** 4 Oct 2021, 02:54 pm »

I've got a pretty big collection of NOS tubes and I've also tried most of the new production tubes. I'm sorry but most of the stuff that's made in Russia and eastern Europe just isn't at the level of the NOS stuff. The new Russian tubes are always just a bit too dry sounding, IMO.

However there is one production tube that I do like, sounds great, and tests/measures well above spec - the Psvane 12AU7 Art series. Actually IME, Psvane is really crushing it with their Art series, the Western Electric series and their Cossor series. Really great sounding tubes (although not cheap). I've been doing A-B comparisons between the Psvane EL84-S tubes and my 3 sets of NOS EL84's (Mullard, Sylvania, Telefunken) and the Psvane is as good as any of them. Really shocking, especially to a tube snob like myself. But hats off, these are great tubes.

brad1138 · « **Reply #154 on:** 4 Oct 2021, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 4 Oct 2021, 02:54 pm

However there is one production tube that I do like, sounds great, and tests/measures well above spec - the Psvane 12AU7 Art series. Actually IME, Psvane is really crushing it with their Art series, the Western Electric series and their Cossor series. Really great sounding tubes (although not cheap).

Thanks,
I found the Psvane 12AU7 Art series for $100/pr matched. That's not too bad of a price.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #155 on:** 5 Oct 2021, 03:10 am »

I second the Psvane....had very good results with it as well and I would put it up there with the NE's, albeit they are a bit different overall....

brad1138 · « **Reply #156 on:** 5 Oct 2021, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 5 Oct 2021, 03:10 am

I second the Psvane....had very good results with it as well and I would put it up there with the NE's, albeit they are a bit different overall....

How would you characterize their differences?

brad1138 · « **Reply #157 on:** 7 Oct 2021, 01:13 am »

I put the long plates in a couple days ago, they are smoother than the stock tubes. I have had the Candela on with a source running for 2 days now to burn them in.

I got the Clear tops and the Northern Electrics in today, I was going to swap out to one of those. But after listening for a bit today, I was so pleased with the sound, I am going to just enjoy as is for a while longer.

JMW73 · « **Reply #158 on:** 4 Nov 2021, 11:48 pm »

Gonna jump on the bandwagon on this revived thread...

I had gotten the Northern Electrics on Klaus' recommendation. And I have to say, they are really great. Fairly balanced top to bottom, sweet mids, and a expansive soundstage making my narrow room sound wide. And fairly psychedelic on some prog electronic music (Lunatic Soul).

I just recently put in the longplates that started this thread. More dynamic with a nice soundstage, but not as "sweet" as the NEs. Better than the stock ones, but I had a stock one die so I was in need!

I'm going to try some RCA Cleartops, some Electro-Harmonix (they were mentioned somewhere in this thread and are inexpensive), and then I might try the Psvane at some point. I agree, at $100 matched pair that's not too bad.

brad1138 · « **Reply #159 on:** 21 Apr 2022, 12:51 am »

I hadn't really had time to sit back and A/B the RCA Clear tops and the Northern Electrics until today. Interestingly, with my system the RCAs are the clear winner. Much more engaging and enjoyable. My Moabs are a forward speaker, the RCAs are more laid back than the NEs, better synergy. I also found the mid bass more prominent, bass guitar stood out more (something I really like).