Advice on cartridge for Pro-ject Perspective

shep · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 Jan 2007, 08:32 pm »

They are nuts and should commit hari kari (spelling?) emmediately. Now you got the cart. Don't play it like this on good records. Find a vinyl freak/tweaker. Can't be that hard!

shep · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 Jan 2007, 08:38 pm »

Nuts and lazy. Even if it were a junk cartridge they could have taken a bit more time and "pretend". Now if you had been japanese...

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 01:33 am »

Quote from: shep on 18 Jan 2007, 08:32 pm

They are nuts and should commit hari kari (spelling?) emmediately. Now you got the cart. Don't play it like this on good records. Find a vinyl freak/tweaker. Can't be that hard!

Apparently it is not that easy! The one place I thought I could trust the person - I hi-end audio shop - and no chance! Then do I trust some geezer on the street (of this backward "bed-town" in which I live) to start screwing with it?? Would I perhaps be safer to try to learn myself?
Justin

shep · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 10:26 am »

Sorry! I just assume there are audiophiles hanging out on street corners waiting for you to come along!
Yeah, learn it yourself. It really isn't that hard. There must be umpteen "places" on the web with detailed explanations.

mfsoa · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 02:16 pm »

I just stumbled on this, might be useful?

http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 03:54 pm »

Quote from: mfsoa on 19 Jan 2007, 02:16 pm

I just stumbled on this, might be useful?

http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm

Great, I'll have a look at that when I get the time - thanks!
Also I had better get a test record I suppose. Any ideas about one in English, that I can get sent here to Japan?
And by the way, how easy are these MC carts to getting damaged? In the shop the assistant pushed the back end of the arm accidentally, making the needle drag across the record a little bit - you know, that typical scratching sound. Is that okay? It seems to happen often anyway (I mean with "ordinary" people), accidently.
Thanks!
Justin

shep · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 05:01 pm »

There you go! the perfect answer (that link) Now the fun starts!
Sounds like it was the house of horrors...answer: If there wasn't much weight on the arm and it was a slight brush across the record than no damageto the cart. The record however now has a scratch. Hope it wasn't yours! Some carts will not stand for this. Others will, a bit. Try not to! You deserve to hear those records. You're almost there...

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #27 on:** 20 Jan 2007, 03:19 am »

Ah yes, thank you! Come to think of it, I should mention why I'm doing this in the first place - it's actually so that I can transfer LPs to CDs! But I had better make a new thread about that:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=36093.msg321097#msg321097

Thanks for all your help, everyone.
Justin

jrhymeammo · « **Reply #28 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 07:54 pm »

Sato-Musen? I hate that damn place. They play the store theme music over and over... I always catching myself humming to that song, and I was getting sick of slapping my face everytime I catch myself doing it, then slap again for slaping my face.

Hara-Kiri is what you were thinking of... SLASH!!!

The ruler they were using was probsbly just a cartridge protractor..

Make sure you set the VTA for your records..I'm sure they didnt do that for you since they dont know what type of records you use. It's not hard to install a cart yourself, just gotta be careful. When you lower the arm to see if it's properly aligned with the protractor, make sure your counter weigh is back in place... I would get a cartridge scale made by SHURE for about 2400yen, and be sure to get a Onzow Zerodust for about 1850yen($15)..freaking thing cost $70 here, but it's still worth it.

DL103 should be a great upgrade for you. Just remember to adjust your VTA, it's really easy.

I should check here more often.

JRA

shep · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 08:29 pm »

"Ah yes, thank you! Come to think of it, I should mention why I'm doing this in the first place - it's actually so that I can transfer LPs to CDs!"
All the more reason Justin to do it right the first time! it's very time consuming. How's it coming?

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 08:27 am »

Quote from: shep on 27 Jan 2007, 08:29 pm

"Ah yes, thank you! Come to think of it, I should mention why I'm doing this in the first place - it's actually so that I can transfer LPs to CDs!"
All the more reason Justin to do it right the first time! it's very time consuming. How's it coming?

Thanks for the concern. Actually I haven't even opened the box I packed it in yet from the shop! Been busy. Hopefully this coming week I can get it going. Sounds like I have to go to buy some more stuff first thoug! (Protractor etc?) I'll try to let you all know how it goes. The reason I wanted it done in the shop is because I am unlikely to know what sound is good or not!! And also have no test record! (Anyone know if I can buy an English language test record out here?!
Anyway, best wishes all
Justin

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #31 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 10:20 am »

So, here is the latest on my cartridge adventure:

I plugged it all in and there was a hum. In the shop (Sato-Musen) I had specifically requested that they test the sound, to make sure not only that they had set the cartridge up right, but also to check in the shop if my deck was fine, seeing as how I had bought it second hand. So they did, and they said everything was fine, everything was very good and absolutey no problems. I myself would not know even what to listen for, but as these are the professionals, I was listening (indeed paying) for their opinion.

Getting it finally unpacked at home and plugging it in to my Alpine/Luxman LE-109 phono stage, in the "MC straight" setting, there was a loud buzzing sound. I thought this may most likely be a fault in the deck, as the seller had mentioned some possible fault with the connections at the back.

However inspecting the cartridge I discovered that Sato-Musen had connected the wires wrong, putting the green one where the blue one should go, and visa versa. So of all the work I expected them to do setting up the cartridge, the only ONE that they DID do, i.e. slotting in the wires (well, and doing the crews up I suppose) they did wrong.

Can you imagine a worse "High end audio shop"??

Anyway now I connected the wires right. I don't have a printer so I am yet to do the rest as I need to print out a protractor. Anyway, now that loud hum has relievingly gone.

However, there is still some noise. If I have the amp (audiolab 8000s) at ordinary volume, I cannot notice any noise (I didn't check in a silent environment, and there is some ambient noise in my room already) but if I turn it up, I can here what might be called white noise. This does not happen with my CD player (no sound at all when it is not playing, even at full volume), and even with my computer plugged in to the amp, that doesn't make as much noise as this record player (the computer just gives a computerish buzz if I turn the amp up).

Is it normal? It is MC, so , maybe it is noisy like that naturally? Or is it because I the leads I am using are just standard leads? Would that be the cause? It is not a buzzy sound, just a smooth white noise kind of noise, like the sea or something. And like I said it is quiet, but I know it's there because I hear it when I turn it up.

Thanks all!
Justin

shep · « **Reply #32 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 01:01 pm »

It's supposed to be fun

Sounds like you are having your own calvary...The noise is indeed probably coming from the phono section of the amp. Maybe nothing more than a loose connection. Open it up and have a look if the rca connection is tight, if you can see anything obviously wrong. Still haven't unearthed
a nice Jap. tt geek???

shep · « **Reply #33 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 01:06 pm »

White noise? Might just be a badly designed MC stage or some part of it that is aging badly. If I were you and you really want to continue this adventure, I would try and find a used mc phono stage there. Back in the 80's and maybe later, there were some nice tranformer types (they virtually never age) made by Lux,
Audio T. and others. Should be cheap by now. There was one for sale here just a while back.

shep · « **Reply #34 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 01:14 pm »

http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13488/denoncu.JPG
for example. These wil probably all sound better than what is in the amp.
Come to think of it, I have a pair of highly touted plug-in tranformers from Orthofon. They are very small, T-5 I think they were called. If I can just find them, maybe can do a deal. Haven't listened with them for years but I think they are very good.

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #35 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 03:10 pm »

Quote from: shep on 5 Feb 2007, 01:06 pm

If I were you and you really want to continue this adventure, I would try and find a used mc phono stage there.

That's exactly what I did. Like I said, Alpine/Luxman LE-109 phono stage. It has two phono inputs, one for MC, and one for MM/MC.

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #36 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: shep on 5 Feb 2007, 01:01 pm

It's supposed to be fun Sounds like you are having your own calvary...The noise is indeed probably coming from the phono section of the amp. Maybe nothing more than a loose connection. Open it up and have a look if the rca connection is tight, if you can see anything obviously wrong. Still haven't unearthed
a nice Jap. tt geek???

So just to be clear, I have no phono section in my amp. I have a separate phono stage. Now that I have investigated since your suggestion, I see yes it is the phono stage which is giving a noise. I now try it without the turntable attached. MC/MM setting gives a smooth white noise kind of sound. MC straight setting gives the same but with a kind of buzz in addition.
Damn!

Also there are buttons on the front, for MM/0 dB, 22dB, 32dB, and for 3ohms 40, and 100. They are anyway not used in MC straight mode. But just to let you know, they make noise too when switching them (only while in MC/MC mode though).

So I should take it apart. Anyone got ideas what to look for, or what to do?
Thanks a lot!
Justin

lcrim · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 03:34 pm »

woodlandjustin:
I am assuming that the noise you hear is w/o a record playing. Does this noise increase as you turn up the gain knob?
I'm guessing but it is probably explained by the fact that phono stages provide a huge amount of gain. Typically, for MC, the gain will be over 50 dB. Any noise will also be magnified enormously as well. A CD or a DVD player in comparison, usually outputs a much stronger signal, usually around 2 volt, whereas an MC cart is rated in mV and must rely on a gain stage or several gain stages for the system to play loud enough that the music has proper dynamics. A good phono stage accomplishes its function w/o an objectionable amount of noise.

Edit:
I saw your reply when I was about to post this. Do you have a ground wire connected between the TT and the phono stage? If not there should be a post on both to accomplish this.

shep · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 03:37 pm »

Sorry, wasn't looking properly. If trying different settings doesn't help, got a bum unit. Want me to go looking for those MC step-up transformers?

woodlandjustin · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Feb 2007, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 5 Feb 2007, 03:34 pm

woodlandjustin:
I am assuming that the noise you hear is w/o a record playing. Does this noise increase as you turn up the gain knob?
I'm guessing but it is probably explained by the fact that phono stages provide a huge amount of gain. Typically, for MC, the gain will be over 50 dB. Any noise will also be magnified enormously as well. A CD or a DVD player in comparison, usually outputs a much stronger signal, usually around 2 volt, whereas an MC cart is rated in mV and must rely on a gain stage or several gain stages for the system to play loud enough that the music has proper dynamics. A good phono stage accomplishes its function w/o an objectionable amount of noise.

Yes with no record playing, and now also, as I have said above, even with no record deck plugged in to the phono stage! And, only when I turn up the volume. But it doesn't seem right to me. Is that normal for a phono stage? To make noise even when nothing is plugged in?

Also now I looked inside the stage. There is nothing obviously wrong. No burned parts or anything obviously loose.

Also I have been thinking, as the MC part and MC/MM are separate, it must be something which is common to both channels, as the noise happens with both.