[elg2001]

Hi Dusty,
    I sent you the email below, but I haven't gotten a response in about 2 weeks, so I figured I'd try here. I appologize if you've already received it and are planning to respond soon. Anyways, here's the email:


    I'm an electrical engineer, so I know fluff when I see/hear it. I'm very interested in a DAC whose frequency response is dead flat and whose noise level, distortion level, and jitter are extremely low. I've been pointed to your VDA2 by a few people, and I'm interested in seeing some bench tests of it.
    I've read a few reviews of it, and those just help solidify the fact that fancy words and high prices are more important to most audiophiles than actual sound quality. Thus, I don't make my decision based on reviews, but rather based on cold, hard facts. For audio, the only way to do this is via oscilloscope/bench test readings, and that's exactly what I'm trying to find.
    At this point, I could care less about people's opinions about your product. Every review I read is glowing, and based on that I should buy this. Instead, I want to come to my own conclusions by seeing quantitative measurements. Can you provide me with some? The more extensive/detailed the better.
 
    Sorry for rambling on, but I guess I was just venting somewhat. Searching for quality audio products is next to impossible with all the "reviews" floating around the web. Show me numbers, please.
 
    I humbly await your response. Thanks for your time.

[CIAudio]

   I'm an electrical engineer, so I know fluff when I see/hear it. I'm very interested in a DAC whose frequency response is dead flat and whose noise level, distortion level, and jitter are extremely low. I've been pointed to your VDA2 by a few people, and I'm interested in seeing some bench tests of it.
    I've read a few reviews of it, and those just help solidify the fact that fancy words and high prices are more important to most audiophiles than actual sound quality. Thus, I don't make my decision based on reviews, but rather based on cold, hard facts. For audio, the only way to do this is via oscilloscope/bench test readings, and that's exactly what I'm trying to find.
    At this point, I could care less about people's opinions about your product. Every review I read is glowing, and based on that I should buy this. Instead, I want to come to my own conclusions by seeing quantitative measurements. Can you provide me with some? The more extensive/detailed the better.

We don't have graphs availalable for the updated version yet. I probably won't have time to do them until after CES (mid January).

[elg2001]

that's A-OK, I was just inquiring. I wanted to make my point very clear, so I hope my initial post didn't come off too strong.

I'm VERY excited to see them because ALOT of people have spoken very highly of your products in general, especially the VDA2.

Should I inquire again in mid-January, or should I just look out for the performance graphs on ciaudio.com ?

[CIAudio]

I'm VERY excited to see them because ALOT of people have spoken very highly of your products in general, especially the VDA2.

Should I inquire again in mid-January, or should I just look out for the performance graphs on ciaudio.com ?

I'll try to email them to you when available...if you haven't heard from me by mid-Jan, send me a reminder email.

Although the specs for VDA-2 are very good, it really tells you nothing about what it sounds like. Most DAC's with opamp output stages will measure very good, but don't sound natural. We use the measurements for production testing only, to ensure that all production models measure like our reference.

[pipedream]

Most DAC's with opamp output stages will measure very good, but don't sound natural.

Very interesting.  I believe your UcD amplifiers use an opamp for the input stage and I'm assuming they do "sound natural".

[CIAudio]

Although the specs for VDA-2 are very good, it really tells you nothing about what it sounds like. Most DAC's with opamp output stages will measure very good, but don't sound natural. We use the measurements for production testing only, to ensure that all production models measure like our reference.

I didn't say that opamps can't sound natural...there are many opamp based products that sound good. I'm saying your average $50 DVD player (using cheap opamps) can often measure better than a discrete SS or tube based circuit.
Mass market companies tend to build things for best specs and lowest cost, while hi-end companies are more interested in the sound quality.

Most DAC IC's have a voltage output (an opamp built into the chip). This opamp will have a certain "character". Using a current output DAC allows the designer to build a more desirable opamp or discrete output stage, rather than settling for the sonic signature built into the DAC IC.

[elg2001]

well the reason why I'm so interested in numbers is because I've already heard from a TON of people that love the VDA2. If the measurements match their impressions, then I will be a happy buyer. I took this approach with speakers. I ended up with Adire Audio KitLCR-based speakers from RAW Acoustics and they're the best speakers I've ever heard. I've gone to stores to hear $6,000 speakers and they are definetely not as good as what I have. I'm hedging my bets and assuming that this approach will work very well with DACs too.

[CIAudio]

well the reason why I'm so interested in numbers is because I've already heard from a TON of people that love the VDA2. If the measurements match their impressions, then I will be a happy buyer. I took this approach with speakers. I ended up with Adire Audio KitLCR-based speakers from RAW Acoustics and they're the best speakers I've ever heard. I've gone to stores to hear $6,000 speakers and they are definetely not as good as what I have. I'm hedging my bets and assuming that this approach will work very well with DACs too.

I understand your reasoning...I'm sure the DAC measurements will push you over the edge

[gooberdude]

there's no problem with goin' out on a limb and taking advantage of dusty's trial period.  you'll know within the first 5 minutes whether or not its performance is to your liking.  if all the ci line has a similar sound & cohesion as the vpp-1/vac-1 phono combo, there's little risk involved.   its easily upgradeable too: vac-1, aftermarket powercord, RAL umbilical.   

i haven't listened to the DAC yet, wish i had one though.    aa     

i'm looking for a used one on a'gon...