Anybody Leave Tube gear on 24/7?

warnerwh · « **on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:02 pm »

The reason I ask is because a very good friend of mine and I discussed this. He does work for higher than state of the art electronics so is very knowledgeable. Also has extensive experience with tube electronics that must be reliable, and I do mean reliable as anything ever made on the planet.

He said the gospel is that leaving the tube equipment on tends to make the tubes last longer. Some of them have lasted decades. What's your experience?

PhilNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:18 pm »

I think it depends on how often you use it. If you use the gear every day, then turning it off and on every day might add stress to the tubes. If you're only using it every few days, then maybe turning it off saves some tube life...

Scott F. · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:21 pm »

Hiya Warner,

There is only one piece that I leave on full time, that is my Paradisea DAC. With the low voltage that the tubes sees, the tube itself should last for years and years.

When it comes to the rest of my gear (SET amps, PP amps, tubed pre's), I only leave them run full time on the weekends. They sometimes get turned on on Thursday (more often Friday) night and don't get shut down until late Sunday evening.

I understand where he is coming from on leaving the gear turned on. It saves all of the initial shock that the tube sees from the inrush current at each start up. I'm sure that my turning the gear on and off helps to prematurely age the tubes but I think that the way I do it allows more life to the tubes based on time listened rather than time turned on (did that make sense?).

Of course, I have no way of proving this so YMMV.

warnerwh · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:36 pm »

You know I got to thinking about it and this stuff is used where it cannot fail. If you know about EMP then you know tube electronics will continue to operate where SS stuff will fail. I'm sure it's a completely different world compared to our audio world where if a tube goes out it doesn't matter. Apparently tubes do have to be replaced regularly but some of them have lasted a very long time.

Also they figure if SS equipment is left on it will last longer, but again it's designed for reliability above all else as that is the priority.

Btw these are people who have studied this stuff more than anyone, period. Nothing is more important than reliability and they've been studying it since it's inception.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:38 pm »

Quote

Common sense tells me your friend's advice is suspect. Tubes have a finite lifespan like incandescent light bulbs. Does leaving a light bulb on 24/7 extend the life of the bulb? I doubt it.

I remember reading somewhere years ago, that when tested, light bulbs that ran continuously, lasted much longer than ones that were being run and being switched on periodically. I don't remember the exact results, but the difference was significant. I don't know if this correlates directly to tubes, or if there have been more recent studies on the incandescent light bulb thing.

Cheers

aerius · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:42 pm »

I'd say it depends, depends on the tubes, how hard they're being run, the circuit design, the usage patterns, and some other things I can't think of. At one end there's power tubes that are being run hot & right at the limit or even over it, and on the other end there's the small signal tubes which are barely turned on.

Using the incandescent lightbulb analogy, there's a million types of lightbulbs, you have dollar store specials, long life bulbs, halogen bulbs, night light bulbs, and they come in all sorts of wattages. Your average generic 100W bulb will burn constantly for a couple months or so before it burns out, it might last a year or so in typical use. A long-life bulb may last 2-5 times longer, and a halogen might last a bit longer than that. Now take that regular 100W bulb and run it at 20W or so, instead of being good for a couple thousand hours it's now good for a million or more. But if you do that to a halogen the gains won't be nearly as great since it requires high temperatures to work properly.

Going back to tubes, same basic idea. Some kinds of tubes last longer than others, and the kinder you are to them the longer they last. Some tubes need to be run near full power, others can loaf along in the barely turned on stage and last for decades that way.

SET Man · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 09:58 pm »

Hey!

Okay, a bit off topic here. But since the talk about incadescent bulb came up so I want to share this with you guys

(Click>) "The Centennial Light" The world oldest/longest burning light bulb!

It will turn 106 years old in 2007. It is only 4 watts and use as a nightlight. But still.. Amazing isn't it?

Man! I wish my audio tubes would last this long

Oh! BTW.... I have tube amps and pre. I always turn everything off. Especially my SET amps with those $525 per pair of KR Audio 842VHD tubes.

Take care,
Buddy

Daygloworange · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 10:16 pm »

And that cat doesn't stop a rockin' !

Cheers

warnerwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 10:33 pm »

Buddy: There's another bulb like that I think in Astoria, Oregon. It's been on for decades. I believe the tubes used in this equipment is most likely small signal tubes but I really don't know anything about it other than some tubes have lasted alot longer than I thought tubes could last.

I've got a stand up radio built in the thirties. I've got no idea how old the tubes are but it still works. I only keep it because it looks cool and is in almost new condition. You don't see woodwork like that much anymore.

nunhgrader · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Dec 2006, 01:38 pm »

I vote for turning them off. Maybe would make sense if you turned them on and off several times daily but, otherwise I think one should save the power (and tube life imho).

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Dec 2006, 01:46 pm »

Mythbusters did a segment on leaving a lightbulb on all the time vs. turning it on/off when appropriate. The science proved out that even with the most inefficient bulbs (as measured by how much power it used at start-up) that you should turn the bulb on/off. Further tests showed no detrimental effects on longevity by turning the bulb on/off.

I don't turn my tube gear on/off a lot during the course of the day, but it does get turned off using a common sense approach.

George

The_KiD · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Dec 2006, 03:04 pm »

With my Cary SLI-80, I would leave it on all day on weekends so I could enjoy music all day but I always turned it off at night. Just always made me nervous as I did witness a tube go in a a friends amp which was not pretty. It was a good thing we were both sitting there to turn it off..I guess it just would have blown the fuse but you never know..

KiD

ctviggen · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Dec 2006, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 25 Dec 2006, 01:46 pm

Mythbusters did a segment on leaving a lightbulb on all the time vs. turning it on/off when appropriate. The science proved out that even with the most inefficient bulbs (as measured by how much power it used at start-up) that you should turn the bulb on/off. Further tests showed no detrimental effects on longevity by turning the bulb on/off.

I wonder how applicable this test is to tubes (which are different from light bulbs)? Perhaps we could get them to do the same test with some tube gear.

A side question: What about leaving the tube amp on, but switching it on and off with a switched outlet? This is what I'm thinking of doing for a tube amp used to power my center channel.

JLM · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Dec 2006, 05:37 pm »

Some tube gear has a "keep warm" mode, like my Ah! Tjoeb 4000.

boead · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Dec 2006, 06:19 pm »

Both my Scott Nixon Tube DA and my tube phone amp have no on/off switch and are meant to be on 24/7.

I also leave my tube preamp and amp on for days at a time, especially over the weekends (Friday through Monday).

Soundbitten · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Dec 2006, 06:39 pm »

I leave the Nixon Tube Dac on 24/7 but turn off the Anthem preamp before retiring for the night if that makes sense .

meilankev · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Dec 2006, 08:45 pm »

warner,

I am one of those who never turns off my tube equipment - preamp and monoblocks - unless I'm performing bi-monthly maintenance. I've had my current system going for almost 5 years now.

Kevin

warnerwh · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Dec 2006, 08:31 am »

Kevin: How often do you need new tubes? Does it seem like they last as long either way?

jt1stcav · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jan 2007, 05:05 am »

Whether tube gear lasts longer, sounds better, saves tube life, et al, is all moot IMO if the power company periodically shuts down a grid at night and reboots, or there's a power surge/spike, or as is the case here in Florida, frequent lightning storms kills the power altogether for hours (if not for most of a day)! Personally, I just don't want to take the chance of screwing up my SET amp and preamp by any of the reasons listed above. Plus, I want to be home just in case something does go drastically wrong...I don't want to leave for work and come home to a burned-down house because I wasn't there to shut down my system due to some sort of catastrophe. Call me paranoid, I don't care. But when I leave the house or go to sleep at night, my system's turned off.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jan 2007, 06:58 am »

What about hybrid gear? I could see turning off triode amps, but what of tube/ss hybrids? I bought a Butler TDB-3150 and am wondering if it should be turned off at nite or when I'm not home?