NuForce P-9 is ready - breakthrough spec

beachbum · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Mar 2007, 12:05 am »

well with the help of john at summit audio boxed up my p-8 today and sent in to nuforce for the p-9 upgrade. looking forward to the fine looking p-9, will give updates

rustydoglim · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 Mar 2007, 05:00 pm »

Karsten · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Mar 2007, 07:05 pm »

Knowing how good the P-8 is makes it really interesting to get the P-9. I have pretty high expectations

It looks very nice too, well done.

Regards,
Karsten

Karsten · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 Mar 2007, 06:48 pm »

Got the P-9 today, has been breaking in for 6 hours so far. I like the direction it it seems to be heading. Very transparant, fast and dynamic. Just the virtues i like in a preamp. Way to go NuForce

Karsten

beachbum · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 Mar 2007, 11:21 pm »

great karsten, hows the remote, sounds like early thoughts on p-9 or very good. keep us updated, thanks mike

Karsten · « **Reply #25 on:** 20 Mar 2007, 12:09 am »

Beachbum,

The remote is really cool, I like it a lot. It is hard to describe but I think NuForce will post a picture soon, otherwise I can mail you one.

I just did some serious listening for a few hours. You have something to look forward to

I can say with confidence that you cannot possibly imagine how good it is......

Karsten

beachbum · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 12:26 am »

hey karsten, what amps are you using with your p-9, also is the volume control step ed with a wide range, thanks mike

tyee · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 01:47 am »

Yes, I'm contemplating the Nuforce amps, but can't decide on the 9.02 or the 9.02SE. Everybody would like the SE's but how do you decide who would be happy with the non SE version?

beachbum · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 11:45 am »

hello tyee, i will give you my experience with ref 9, and the SE version, i had the first ref9s in my system for a good nine months and the amps were very detailed and put out a fine stage, they give my wife and myself a lot of music sessions with great enjoyment, when the nuforce gang improved the ref 9 to the SE version, i had my sights set on upgrading,
nuforce service was super fast and i had my amps back in less than a week, the SE version goes deeper into the music, gives micro details and is a super amp, in my case it was a good upgrade as my system fell right into it, both amps have no problems driving my tyler signature system speakers,
now i am going the upgrade to my p8 preamp, and really looking forward to what p9 is all about, good luck and happy musical days, mike

beachbum · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 03:25 pm »

hello again karsten do you stack the two p-9 components like the pictures from nuforce, or you using any type of isolation under them, and curious about the connections between the two, thanks mike

Karsten · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 Mar 2007, 08:15 pm »

Beachbum,

The volume steps seem fine enough to me, but I guess that people with high effiency speakers may find step 1 too high. The SP Tech Revelations I'm using are 91 db (4 ohm) and step one is just on the border of being too loud as lowest level.

I'm using it with a set of Ref 9 SE.

I have placed them next to eachother on a little plate in my Starsound Sistrum Rack. They are connected to eachother with high density sub d connectors. Looks pretty much as a short VGA cable.

Break-in is still doing small wonders here......

Karsten

beachbum · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 12:13 am »

thanks for the answers and keep us updated as breakin goes on, i am in a waiting pattern with mine hopefully soon, thanks again karsten, and have a good one, mike

rustydoglim · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 12:54 pm »

The best way for placing P-9 is to put the two units side by side. The transformer is very quiet. But we all know that audiophiles pick on everything.

I think Beachbum will have to wait for 2 more weeks before he can listen to P-9. If my memory serves me right, he ordered a silver color P-9 and it is all sold out.

beachbum · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 07:58 pm »

hello Jason and thanks for the bad news, go figure i would have the one out of stock, good things come to those that wait, i always have my back up marsh p2000t thank goodness, to be with out music now that would be a bad thing, thanks for the update Jason and if possible let john know or email me a tracking number when shipped, and keep the fine equipment coming,

stingfan · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 07:52 am »

Hopefully black is not sold out too!

nuforce-casey · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 07:41 pm »

Thanks for all the interests on P-9. We recommend keeping the 2 boxes side-by-side, and for the most logical wire routing, put the Analog Box on the Left, and Control/Power supply Box on the Right, you will notice that the smallest incoming signal is furthest away from the AC power inlet, and wire-crossings minimized.

However, the locations of the circuit boards and the transformer are well thought out, so there has been NO MEASURABLE performance variance when stacking the 2 boxes. aa

Make sure you use P-9 with the included AC cord (the same AC cord supplied as with Ref9 and Ref9SE). The extra high bandwidth means the AC cord for the P-9 should have a level of RF and noise rejection.

stingfan · « **Reply #36 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 03:57 pm »

My SE's arrived this week as an upgrade to my 9.02s. P-9 arrives Friday (upgrade for the P-8), the same day my visiting folks depart for home. Freeing up what looks to be one heck of a break-in / upgrade weekend! Reviews to follow...

Though, I plan to use my own AC cords, opposed to what Casey recommended. Hopefully this is OK. I currently use a Zu Audio Bok for the P-8 (and soon P-9), and Harmonic Pro AC 11's on the Ref 9's (and soon for the SE's.)

beachbum · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 Mar 2007, 12:46 am »

hey stingfan i cant comment yet on p-9, but i can tell you that you are going to love ref -9 SE. they will go through changes until broke in, but for me it was fun to hear the differences in break in, good music listening ahead,

stingfan · « **Reply #38 on:** 2 Apr 2007, 06:22 pm »

Quote from: Karsten on 21 Mar 2007, 08:15 pm

The volume steps seem fine enough to me, but I guess that people with high effiency speakers may find step 1 too high. The SP Tech Revelations I'm using are 91 db (4 ohm) and step one is just on the border of being too loud as lowest level.
Karsten

This is my first impression as well. I have Zu Druids mk4's which are 101db sensitivity and step 1 is also right on the edge of being too loud. What's more, subsequent volume steps are not the same step up decibels. Let me explain:

There are 100 digital steps on the Control Box read-out from 0-MAX on the P-9. However, the first 13 steps are huge volume jumps each. At level 13 out of 100, the analog ALPS pot dials ups up to the half way point-- bad user interface here IMHO. At the halfway point on the ALPS (12 o'clock on the dial) I would expect to be at volume step 50, not 13. And further, as you get dial up past 12 o'clock, the decibel steps get increasingly smaller. Its almost a logarithmic step function. This may not make sense or be all that user friendly to our fellow hi-fi'ers. I much prefer a linear volume step function, as that of my old P-8 volume steps. Though the P-8 was almost too much in the other direction with the steps being slightly too small, even for the Zu's. At low volumes it is especially important to have the most subtle control over volume. I hope Nuforce chimes in to explain and resolve w/ the P-9.

When using the ALPS dial manually you **can** indeed get much more sensitive volume control. But that means you have to physically walk up to the unit to adjust each time. Not good if the P-9 is controlling your tv/dvd as well.

I am curious and surprised that none of Nuforce's professional beta customers spotted this before full customer ship. It is the most glaring aspect of unit, since volume control is one of the most visible user interface aspects of a pre-amp. Hopefully this is addressable in some easy way.

The rest of my review, on sound quality, to follow once I've had a fair listening session today.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #39 on:** 3 Apr 2007, 01:06 am »

Repost from another topic about the volume issue:

With P8, the digital volume control is not as 'pure' device as the passive Alps pot, and the primary goal for electronic volume control (as in the P8) is it's very easy to use software to dial-in exactly the volume level, and there are 200 steps available.

The challenge with P9 is that we have exactly 1 rotation on the Alps pot, as limited by its physical form. Compare this to the equivalent of "20 turns" (equivalent) on P8 volume.

One point that I want to make is that human hearing is 'logarithm' in nature, and on P9, we decided to simply divide down the 1 rotation into 100 steps, as the Alps port is logarithm in nature, display=50 not necessary means a 12'o clock position on the analog pot, but rather, the Alps port gain is at the 50% level in dB scale.
We are tracking the voltages electronically and not memorizing the physical position.

- Casey

I will add that using the Apls volume pot allow us to achieve pure analog volume control without the expense of using banks of expensive resistors and relays (that will double the price of P-9

). The result is superior performance as evident in the spec. The drawback is the integration with digital volume remote and the Apls volume pot. I think after a while, you'll get use to it

. The alternatives are not good. Pure digital solution degrade performance. Array of resistors banks (traditional high end approach) will bring the price of P-9 to $10,000. So, I think at US MSRP $3150 for a best performing preamp in the world, this is a good compromise in value for money

- Jason