Jim's pics RM-V60 Music Wing

John Casler · « **Reply #40 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: soundguy3 on 17 Dec 2006, 10:23 pm

Sounds great Brian, thanks for the offer and will keep my ears open to it!!!! .......it all went very well...they sold out the last 4 performances, inc. standing room! There will be more performances in the spring, including one that will be televised live in selected movie theaters around the country and overseas, somewhat like a live rock concert. You pay one price, prb around $15-$20 and you watch it on a large screen with surround sound...hey Brian..they should use your speakers!! Not sure about Verona at this point, but will keep you posted!

Happy Holidays to all!

John,

Letterman has already "rebroadcast" the same show, so now I've seen it twice.

Great Performance, and second time is even better.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #41 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 11:34 pm »

So where does this leave the RM/X Elixer? Does the RM-V60 suppleplant it? Replace it? Will the Elixer remain in the lineup?

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 Dec 2006, 10:13 pm »

We are currently out of stock on the RM/X but if anyone orders a pair, we'll certainly make some up.

ctviggen · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 Dec 2006, 10:49 pm »

I would assume the RMx's would give quite a bit different a sound. I'd be happy to compare the two in my own home for a while.

Sadly, I couldn't afford to buy either right now.

seadogs1 · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 01:55 am »

Brian, I have a question. Why two different choices for Subs on the V60's? I know you explained the VLA has about half the distortion and moves more air but there must be more to it than that? What circumstances would dictate one over the other? Would two VSS subs be a better choice than one VLA? Does the VSS excite the floor more than the VLA? Would the room dictate which one would be a better choice? Please explain I'm at a loss. Thanks!

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #45 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 02:23 am »

The answer is, a 6ft tower moves a lot more air than a 30x23x17" sub. In a large room that may mean a lot.

John Casler · « **Reply #46 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 02:55 am »

Quote from: seadogs1 on 19 Dec 2006, 01:55 am

Brian, I have a question. Why two different choices for Subs on the V60's? I know you explained the VLA has about half the distortion and moves more air but there must be more to it than that? What circumstances would dictate one over the other? Would two VSS subs be a better choice than one VLA? Does the VSS excite the floor more than the VLA? Would the room dictate which one would be a better choice? Please explain I'm at a loss. Thanks!

Brian, (being a man of few words) has succinctly stated the "prime directive" for choosing SUBWOOFER.

Moving Air!!

However you also asked why people would choose one (or a pair) over the other.

So there are lots of answers.

The other issues are "space" and "placement" with a small consideration going to "price"

If you have the space and price is no object, then:

RM v60 with a Pair of VLA's flanking is perfect

If you have limited space, and price is no object then:

RM v60 with Single VLA placed as necessary

If you Have the space and price is a "consideration" then:

RM v60 with a Pair of VSS flanking if possible

If you don't have the space and price is an "object" then:

RM v60 with Single VSS.

Additionally if you are a "2 channel" freak and feel you can hear the stereo difference in frequencies below 70Hz, then you may also be swayed to a "stereo" pair of SUBS.

And I might also mention that Bass Towers interact differently in a room, according to some, and it is said that woofers firing at head height are valuable to exciting the room better.

I think Floyd Toole has been experimenting with placing Subs as high as the ceiling with exceptional results. (Kevin Voeks and I were discussing this work last year, along with the Quadratic Bass System)

So there you have it, the short answer, and the long drawn out boring answer.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #47 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:52 am »

Hummmm! The short answer sounds surprisingly like the one I most often get from my wife -- "It depends" aa

Paul

PhoenixSF · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:59 am »

Brian,

So I have been enjoying my RM/x's for a number of years now with no desire to change. I was considering having them updated with the supermax OXO, SR71, bass amps, CDWG (is that still happening for the RM/x?) early this next year. However, given this beautiful new development....the RM V60....dipole.....

, what is your thought on relative performance of these two marvels? Also....did I read "trade-up" somewhere in this or another thread?

My room is moderately sized 14x24x8. In fact you installed them in my condo in SF (Diamond Heights).

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards, Jeff Bubp

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 04:31 am »

I think the upgrade route would go better for you with the RM/X. CDWG is available.

seadogs1 · « **Reply #50 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 11:47 am »

John, price is somewhat of an issue so the choice is narrowed between a single VLA or two VSS subs. Can you tell me where a single VLA should be placed in respect to the main V60's? Can either the single VLA or the pair of VSS's be placed behind the V60's? What is optimum? Thanks!

tbrooke · « **Reply #51 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 04:56 pm »

I may have missed it but are there pictures and/or specifications as to dimensions for the VSS and VLA posted anywhere. I think I read 6 feet tall for the VLA and a little smaller than the original sub for the VSS.

I'm also anxious to see pictures of a complete setup with v60 and subs and a listening report.

Tom

John Casler · « **Reply #52 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: seadogs1 on 19 Dec 2006, 11:47 am

John, price is somewhat of an issue so the choice is narrowed between a single VLA or two VSS subs. Can you tell me where a single VLA should be placed in respect to the main V60's? Can either the single VLA or the pair of VSS's be placed behind the V60's? What is optimum? Thanks!

Placement of Subs is Always an issue for both aesthetics and performance.

Being a LIBRA(actually Libra/Scorpio and I don't believe this stuff anyway

) I have a tendency to go for balance.

To that end, I would have two VSS subs flanking the RM v60's in "wide" ITU formation.

But, if the room is LARGE and I needed the FirePower, I would go with the VLA placed, in the center between the speakers, again in "wide" ITU.

I might add that ITU formation is simply drawing a circle around the listening position, and placing the speakers on that line, making all the drivers "equidistant" from the listener. And Brian has even suggested that they can even be "slightly closer" to the listener, but preferably not further away, than the mains.

John Casler · « **Reply #53 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:16 pm »

Quote from: tbrooke on 19 Dec 2006, 04:56 pm

I may have missed it but are there pictures and/or specifications as to dimensions for the VSS and VLA posted anywhere. I think I read 6 feet tall for the VLA and a little smaller than the original sub for the VSS.

I'm also anxious to see pictures of a complete setup with v60 and subs and a listening report.

Tom

Hi Tom,

The VSS is 23H x 30W x 17D and I think Brian said it could weigh 165# plus or minus, depending on if it has "onboard" amp or not.

The VLS is 6' tall, but haven't seen other dimensions yet, and weighs an estimated 300#.

I may be wrong, but that cabinet is now being built, so we only have estimated weight.

PhoenixSF · « **Reply #54 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney on 19 Dec 2006, 04:31 am

I think the upgrade route would go better for you with the RM/X. CDWG is available.

Thanks Brian; I trust your judgement!

Regards,

Jeff

seadogs1 · « **Reply #55 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:44 pm »

John, if using two VSS subs and the V60's are ten feet apart can the subs be placed between the V60's to good effect? I can not place the VLA in between the V60's because a big screen TV is there but I can the VSS pair because they are low enough. I take it by your ITU formation you do not reccommend placing the subs behind the main speakers? Thanks!

John Casler · « **Reply #56 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 08:03 pm »

Quote from: seadogs1 on 19 Dec 2006, 07:44 pm

John, if using two VSS subs and the V60's are ten feet apart can the subs be placed between the V60's to good effect? I can not place the VLA in between the V60's because a big screen TV is there but I can the VSS pair because they are low enough. I take it by your ITU formation you do not reccommend placing the subs behind the main speakers? Thanks!

Yes, they can be placed on the inside also.

ITU looks like this:

The idea is that the perfect set up is when all drivers of the mains and subs have aligned acoustic centers as if from the same vertical plane and distance from the listener.

Now keep in mind that is the ideal for phase and time considerations, but sometimes practical and other acoustical consideration may cause this to be adjusted.

Those will be based on your room's specific interaction to the subs, which might cause a different position to be more favorable, all thing considered.

DFaulds · « **Reply #57 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 01:24 pm »

What are the VSS and VLA? Was there a thread discussing them?

John Casler · « **Reply #58 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 03:36 pm »

Quote from: DFaulds on 20 Dec 2006, 01:24 pm

What are the VSS and VLA? Was there a thread discussing them?

from another thread modified with additional updated info:

LOW BASS

Introduction of such an incredible speaker warranted a re-design of the VMPS subwoofers, (VSS) as well as a NEW Bass Array SUBWOOFER System (VLA). The VLA includes a brand new design in the 15" active Driver, and restructuring the Sub's cabinet to have 2" baffles and sidewalls. Using outboard PR based SUBWOOFER lowbass takes the most destructive modulations from surface-born LF waves out of the mid/treble enclosure.

VSS

This new design is so Solid that we call it the VSS (Very Solid SUB). This is available in both passive and powered (1000w) versions, and has a new 15" Megawoofer, and 15" Passive Radiator. The VSS is 23H x 30W x 17D and weighs 165# plus or minus, depending on if it has "onboard" amp or not. This sub is also available in matching veneers to the mains. Powered versions priced between $1650 for veneers and $1850 for Piano Black. Non-Powered $1250 - $1450.

VLA

Bass option II comes in a new 6ft tall powered woofer column we call the VLA (or Very Large Array) with four active 12" megawoofers, and one 12" Passive Radiator. It also has one side-firing 15" Passive Radiator. It is very heavy, over 300 lbs, is standard with 1000w amp/crossover, and is priced at $4960ea. Use one or two.

Housteau · « **Reply #59 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 04:18 pm »

What are your thoughts on placing a single VLA in the center between both RM V-60s as suggested as a possible option? My concern with something that tall in that position is that imaging would suffer due to reflections. I have always been in the school of thought that the center of the wall behind the speakers should be absorptive or at the very least properly diffusive.

Dave