Van Alstine Ultra DAC...Thumbs UP!!!

Rob S. · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Jan 2007, 02:09 pm »

Defec,
Hey, the Ultra DAC is a SUPERB piece, it does exactly what FVA says it will. I don't have any fancy words except it works.

Waiting time for me was roughly 5 weeks, a friend waited close to 10 weeks give or take, I think 6 or so is what Frank normally tells people.

Better yet, PM Frank to get the real time frame.

Rob S.

lazydays · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 3 Jan 2007, 05:07 pm

I suppose we could substitute a BNC connection on an Ultra DAC on a no return, no satisfaction guarantee basis. It should make no sonic difference at all.

However, I can relate that I am much more likely to see a signal dropout from my BNC connected scope probes than I am from any old RCA Jack/Plug combination. The BNC fitting depends upon a spring loaded contact, rather than a solid pressure fit, and appears to be less long term reliable, unless you are worried about someone jerking plugs out of the unit on the fly.

Chips used? Not for announcement at this time. They work. Whether you know what they are or not won't change the way it sounds. I can relate that our DAC is the only production unit we have measured that does not clip or badly distort the top and/or bottom of a full scale test square wave CD signal. For whatever that is worth.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

let me throw the wrench into all this mix. There are a lot of new jazz CD's hitting the market off 20 bit masters (I must own three dozen myself), and now some are out in 24 bit encoding. In my upstairs system I use an ancient Cal Delta feeding an MSB unit with the HDCD & 24/132 cards. I rarely if ever use the HDCD switch on the backside, as I consider this a bother (I do own a hand full of HDCD's). So I will normally just leave it in the upsampleing mode (this is the way it's been for about seven years now). Sound is better than a standard 16/44 CD playing thru the same system, but think the 24 bit CD's can be bright at times. When I take them down stairs and play them thru my plain jane Jolida everything sounds right. But if I play them in my Marantz 8260, again the 24 bit ones can be bright (not always, but a few do). Have any of you used any of the 20bit masters? A lot of them are from Telarc.
gary

avahifi · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 03:45 pm »

Crystal input chip, the rest are Philips stuff.

Frank

avahifi · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 04:00 pm »

We had the opportunity the other day to "really" listen to a SACD player in an apple vs: apple comparison.

As you know SACD does not allow a digital output so you are stuck with whatever D to A, filters, and analog output the manufacturer has done. Thus it has been impossible to hear if the hi-bit performance actually makes a meaningful difference as the commercial grade analog stuff after the bitstream obscures the results.

In working on a new differential hybrid filter for some prototype things (far far from production) it dawned on us we could "operate" on a SACD player and access its signal ahead of its analog filters and audio circuits. This gave us the opportunity to A-B listen to both the hi-bit and redbook output of the SACD digital stuff with a really good analog filter and audio output circuit. We could also compare the results directly with a different prototype digital circuit set (conventional redbook) with the same hybrid differential analog filter and audio output stage.

The results, absolutely no audible difference between hi-bit and redbook material on the SACD machine, and both were "soundly" (gee a pun) trounced by the prototype digital circuit set we are playing with.

Conclusion, either the Philips SACD digital circuits were really poorly done, or there actually is no audible difference between hi-bit and standard res CDs - - 16 bit 44K performance is all you need. We suspect the later.

Just food for thought, and listening.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

CE2 · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 03:30 pm »

Perhaps the bad sounding WIRES need to be replaced? Are you working on a DSD DAC? If you took the SACD digital signal before it's decoding inside the player? Checkout www.emmlabs.com Meitner has a 2X DSD decoding player CDSA-SE It takes a regular CD and upsamples it to 2X of DSD to something like 5.6 Mghz Only problem is it's $10K, about $10K higher than I got for a player!!!! It also plays SACD. Wonder why they don't upsample SACD too, or maybe it does? Don't know. This dude was involved with DSD itself with Philips and Sony.

EclecticSeeker · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 03:38 pm »

A fascinating report, Frank – thanks for sharing. Your note about a “far, far from production” prototype is quite a teaser! Please keep us posted.

avahifi · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 03:46 pm »

We are always working on something "far far from production" here.

The sure fire way to buy an audio component that will never become obsolete is to get the last piece made by a company going out of business.

Or, just keep waiting for the newest latest and greatest. In the meantime, enjoy your AR3s and Scott receiver. Your kids will wonder what they are when they inherit them.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

BrianM · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 04:46 pm »

On the off chance "far, far from production" means next month, BE SURE TO THROW WHATEVER YOU GET FINISHED INTO THE T8 I ORDERED.

rustneversleeps · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 06:23 pm »

>>>>Or, just keep waiting for the newest latest and greatest. In the meantime, enjoy your AR3s and Scott receiver. Your kids will wonder what they are when they inherit them.<<<<

Now, now, Frank,.......let's not make fun of some of the all time audio classic (it's a whole new topic).

I am still using AR4x, KLH 17, large Advent, EICO ST-70, Fisher 100B and all kinds of Dynaco here....Oh also an Empire 598 turntable, spindle bearing are individually matched.

What we have here is there's nothing in between when comes to audio equipment, either outragously expensive, or cheap stuff that are made in China.

For instant, how much did you pay for your speakers, Frank? How many thousand for your B&W 801? Either that or get something from the Best Buy, right? Paying over $1500 for a preamp without phono is too much for me.

It wouldn't be a bad thing when my kids inherit a Super Pas4i, right?

CE2 · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 12:24 am »

AR4x? Things in speakers have improved big time since they where new. Empire 598 they where cool and top end in their time, nice wood base that's for sure. On E-bay they sold a straitght Dyna PAS3 for over $300 !!! In really great shape but still obsolete ckts etc. Ever think of upgrading to an AR-3a...they have been out now for about 40 years, think they still work? Speakers my still be around but AR ain't. Neither is Emprie or Eico, Hey but AVA is!!!! Hmmmm, does Frank know something?

Frank if you can work on a DSD DAC, that would be cool. But every player would need to be taken apart to find the signal, that would not be cool.

modular747 · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 03:08 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 21 Jan 2007, 04:00 pm

The results, absolutely no audible difference between hi-bit and redbook material on the SACD machine, and both were "soundly" (gee a pun) trounced by the prototype digital circuit set we are playing with.

If your new prototype is soundly trouncing an Ultra DAC, I hope it's not too far off...

rustneversleeps · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 03:41 am »

>>>AR4x? Things in speakers have improved big time since they where new. Empire 598 they where cool and top end in their time, nice wood base that's for sure. On E-bay they sold a straitght Dyna PAS3 for over $300 !!! In really great shape but still obsolete ckts etc. Ever think of upgrading to an AR-3a...they have been out now for about 40 years, think they still work? Speakers my still be around but AR ain't. Neither is Emprie or Eico, Hey but AVA is!!!! Hmmmm, does Frank know something?<<<<<

Yes, you bet, my AR4X, and all my vintage still work great. I would put my AR4x (with upgraded crossover) up against any low end B&Ws, I would put my Empire up against any low end VPI or Sota. if I had a pair of KEF or Polks, I would like to upgrade them to a pair of AR3a or a pair of KLH model 6. Something just don't change even when the companies are not around. People still have a love affair with Eico, Dynaco, Marantz, or Fisher. All my vintage are just like any AVA gear, have achieve cult status, except for one thing, Frank's still alive, and David Hafler is not.

rustneversleeps · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 04:07 am »

Oh, one more thing, little CE2, I am sure my Bozak will blow away the Biro. If you read about the life of Bozak and Klipsch, you'd learn what brilliant designer they were. If you read the Audio Basics, you would know Frank use to modify and maintain some vintage classic, he also reworked the ARXA turntable.

You like ARXA turntable, little CE2? Well, Frank likes it, so why wouldn't you, right? I have one right here. It blows away any Pro-ject, MMF, or Goldring, maybe even Linn. Ask Frank, he didn't like Linn.

The point I am trying to make is, little CE2, when comes to audio, the pioneers of audio already studied what needs to be studied, tube circuits don't change all that much, my Bozak have aluminum midrange and tweeter, just like the Thiel, parts quality may not be as good at the time, but when a piece of vintage gear has been restored, it blows away the new stuff, even yours.

planetkestrel · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 07:03 am »

Hey CE2:

AR is not around anymore? Are you high? A quick internet search would have told you that they are still in business.

Oh, but I forgot, you probably can't spell "AR" correctly in order to do a search. Must your posts always have the literacy and grammar of a tree squirrel? What is a "ckt" anyway? And learn how to spell "the", something any half-bright second grader can do correctly, every time.

Mr. Van Alstine won't tell you, and a lot of others here won't, but I will:

You are the worst thing that ever happened to Audio by Van Alstine. If I were Frank, I would sue you for interference with prospective business relationships. Your illiterate ravings have done more to harm his company than anything a competitor could do. Get gone, idiot.

BrianM · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 01:43 pm »

Quote from: planetkestrel on 23 Jan 2007, 07:03 am

You are the worst thing that ever happened to Audio by Van Alstine. If I were Frank, I would sue you for interference with prospective business relationships. Your illiterate ravings have done more to harm his company than anything a competitor could do. Get gone, idiot.

Dude. For your first post on AudioCircle this is a bit hyperbolic don't you think?

Zheeeem · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 02:57 pm »

Quote from: planetkestrel on 23 Jan 2007, 07:03 am

AR is not around anymore? Are you high? A quick internet search would have told you that they are still in business.

Oh, but I forgot, you probably can't spell "AR" correctly in order to do a search. Must your posts always have the literacy and grammar of a tree squirrel? What is a "ckt" anyway? And learn how to spell "the", something any half-bright second grader can do correctly, every time.

Before you flame someone, you might consider checking the facts. AR went out of business in 2004. The name was bought by Audiovox, but the company itself died.

Zheeeem · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 03:13 pm »

Quote from: rustneversleeps on 23 Jan 2007, 04:07 am

I am sure my Bozak will blow away the Biro.

ARXA turntable ... blows away any Pro-ject, MMF, or Goldring, maybe even Linn. Ask Frank, he didn't like Linn.

[M]y Bozak have aluminum midrange and tweeter, just like the Thiel, parts quality may not be as good at the time, but when a piece of vintage gear has been restored, it blows away the new stuff, even yours.

Sigh.

If you are going to make such wild assertions, you actually need to listen to things. I don't know which Bozaks you own, but the biro L/1 was an exceedingly fine speaker. So, as far as I'm concerned, to make such an assertion without even listening to the biro reduces your credibility to zero.

Same thing applies to turntables.

The Bozak drivers are not identical to Thiel. They are different drivers.

Some vintage stuff is pretty good. But you are mistaken if you believe that vintage gear is better than new gear. Some vintage gear is better than some new gear, but there are a lot of good designers out there who continue to make excellent advances in the state of the art - with excellent results. For example, Frank's gear has continued to improve over the 30+ years he's been in business. Speakers like the Salk HT3 were not even around 30 years ago. But yeah, if you're comparing a pair of AR3s bought off eBay for $200 with a new $200 speaker you might be right.

rustneversleeps · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 11:58 pm »

>>>>>>If you are going to make such wild assertions, you actually need to listen to things. I don't know which Bozaks you own, but the biro L/1 was an exceedingly fine speaker. So, as far as I'm concerned, to make such an assertion without even listening to the biro reduces your credibility to zero.

Same thing applies to turntables.

The Bozak drivers are not identical to Thiel. They are different drivers.

Some vintage stuff is pretty good. But you are mistaken if you believe that vintage gear is better than new gear. Some vintage gear is better than some new gear, but there are a lot of good designers out there who continue to make excellent advances in the state of the art - with excellent results. For example, Frank's gear has continued to improve over the 30+ years he's been in business. Speakers like the Salk HT3 were not even around 30 years ago. But yeah, if you're comparing a pair of AR3s bought off eBay for $200 with a new $200 speaker you might be right.<<<<<

I have never made any claim vintage audio gear are always better than the modern ones.

I know that Rudy once said there's no such thing called this small speaker has "amazingly good" bass, that's bass distortion that people are listening too. Good bass are always generated by big speaker in a big cabinet. Certain law of physics can not be bent.

I have never said that the Bozak aluminum midrange and tweeter are identical to the Thiel, what I mean is they are made out of the same aluminum, not a new idea for Thiel.

I have never listened to the Biro, but by judging the size, they are good dorm room speaker, small speaker has small sound, big speaker has big sound, again, the law of physics.

I am sure my ARXA and Empire 598 can beat any midrange Pro-ject, Musical Fidelity, Sota, Rega and so on.....may not beat the TNT, but how many thousands that you would pay for a TNT?

I am sure my restored AR4X, KLH17, Large Advent can beat a lots of mid-end B&W, Polks, KEF, Mission. They may not beat the Salk, I don't know, but how many thousands that you guys paid for your bookshelf Salk?

I believe I've made my point.

finsup · « **Reply #38 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 12:39 am »

What happened to the discussion of the Van Alstine Ultra DAC?

One might think by my post count that I am pretty new -- and would, at least in this instance, be right. So, let me get the discussion back to DACs and maybe the Ultra DAC by asking something pretty basic for all you pros: If a CD player's own DAC mucks the sound up a bit, how exactly does another DAC improve on the sound? If some of the information coming out of the CD player is missing or degraded, how ever does another DAC recover or restore that information?

avahifi · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 12:59 am »

We take the digital data stream out of the ordinary CD player or DVD/CD combo player from its Digital Out port, which is ahead of all of the machine's D to A conversion, digital filters, analog filters, and analog output stages.

The digital output is perfect in any machine that is working properly and has a complete implementation of the required error correction codes. The only ones we would be suspect of is bottom feeder all in one machines from no name sources. They may have "cheated" on the error correction circuits. However, anything from any name brand company (Sony, JVC, Rotel, etc) will have a perfect digital output.

The problems are with the circuits after the digital output, that is where everything is badly handled resulting in poor quality music.

We don't care how bad the original CD or DVD/DC player sounds, we are using the digital data stream before they have a chance to screw it up, and do it properly in our OmegaStar and Ultra DACS.

The result is music.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine