[fredgarvin]

I really don't understand why a thread that has grown faster than just about any I have seen would be closed. It is certainly more interesting and has generated more interest than the hundreds of 10 post threads involving a few people patting each other on the back repeatedly over their new purchases. We have far too many of those, in comparison. (Not that there is anything wrong with that: disclaimer.

[jneutron]

I think if folks had a grasp of what jneutron and occaisonally myself are talking about one might think twice before locking this thread.
                  d.b.

This is yet further reason to lock it down.  If a topic pertains only to a geeky few, than it doesn't belong in Audio Central...it belongs in The Lab; where you technophiles can dither, romp and play..

That would be a mistake on your part.

An example.

I have designed, built, and operated fixed and mobile disco systems since 1978...single amp passive crossover to 300 watts, and multi amp multi kilowatt systems with front end active crossovers.  In all those decades, I have never considered biwiring as being of any merit or use.  A wire is a wire, and what is important is damping factor and total power loss.

Never has any "geek", engineer, researcher, anybody, ever said they heard a difference as a result of biwiring.  They never look.  They don't care.  And, it has never been within my experience base that it does.

My "geek base" provided me historical equations which concur with that assumption, that a wire is a wire.

End result?  A "technical" forum will never question the possibility that our assumption about biwiring is incorrect.  In point of fact, it is the non tech types who have provided anecdotal information to that end.



Alas, it is easy to mathematically prove that biwiring does indeed have an effect of significance.

Would I have come to this understanding within an environment which has only technical members?...NO.

Would the issue have been visited?   NO.  Why?  If it ain't broken, nobody will try to fix it.

It requires two hands to clap.  It also requires more work.

So, to most in Audio Central, this topic is 'over our limited understanding'  and, to a rare few, it's remarkably technical twaddle and dither 

Do not feel it is your responsibility to protect others from exposure to technical information.  Than can easily be construed as censure.

Of course, this does apply to both sides.  The tech oriented people should make a good effort to talk "english", and not "down".

Personally, I have little interest in speaking only to technically oriented people.  That leaves out the vast majority of the human race. (not to mention it'd be dull as all getout).

Cheers, John

[Daygloworange]

It requires two hands to clap.  It also requires more work.

Absolutely.

Personally, I have little interest in speaking only to technically oriented people.  That leaves out the vast majority of the human race. (not to mention it'd be dull as all getout).

I've always found that the people with vast knowledge, love to share, and really enjoy being prodded. We had a very knowledgeable tube amp manufacturer come to our local get together and spoke for quite a while, starting from the basics of how tubes work, right through to the more complex aspects of gain stages and did it in a very simple, easy to understand way. It was fascinating. And it wasn't because he likes to hear the sound of his own voice, even after decades into electronics, he is still very passionate about it. Everybody who attended were very pleased we had him come down.

To me, it's like equilibrium. Things gravitate from a higher pressure to a lower pressure in order to reach equilibrium. People with knowledge sharing with others is the same thing I've found.

Cheers

[jneutron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll see when you put that DSP block contraption in a real room.

cheers,

AJ

Hey there AJ..

Currently workin on the basement workshop..picked up a drill press and built a workbench.  Whoda thunk that the workbench height I settled on would be exactly 1 inch too high for the drill press...it hits the ceiling joists...argh...

For the time being, the drill press is sitting on top of a 250 watt times two amp in a 4ru box, with another 4ru box stacked..perfect height..course I hadn't planned on using a power amp as a drill press stand..

I just received two LM4780 units to start the prototype of the power slices to drive that thingy I spoke of.  I've decided to re-arrange the line arrays into 8 4-inch driver stacks, wired to two times 8 ohms.  That'll give me one 4780 per stack, and allows me to build 16 line arrays.  The 200 tweets are another story.

Even though I've seen the mech prints for the LM4780, I really never appreciated how darn small the thing is.  sheesh.  I'm gonna need the stereoscope to solder the proto's.

I'm also starting to think about the variable delay and amplitude circuits..It'd be nice to include those on the power slice boards, but I think it'll be too complex to do so.

Boy I love this goop..

Oh, btw..I think I figured out how to eliminate all local supply decoupling at the chip to reduce part count..it's gonna be really neat..

Cheers, John

[Daygloworange]

I just received my Bolder modded SB3 yesterday, with a Bolder modified Elpac PS. Dropped it off to my computer tech guru guy. He's interested in upgrading his audio setup and is asking for advice and guidance as to what's out there.

He was intrigued when I told him about the Squeezebox and did some internet searches and thinks it the way to go for him. He said to bring it by when I got it, and if I'd let him get a feel for it, he would help tutor me through the learning curve. Bonus.

I didn't tell him mine was modded. He had no idea. So he hooks it up to his system and finds that the level coming out is comparatively low. He says he set the dB level at 100 and the volume on his integrated amp to 50 in order to achieve a decent enjoyable level. He was feeling the output was inordinately low. but within 5 minutes the level was quite a bit louder. He reported to me that he had it then set 80 for the SB, and 25 for the integrated to what he felt as his average enjoyable level.

I found this quite interesting as he has no predisposition. He's a music listening enthusiast, but spends zero time pursuing the hobby. He's not aware that audiophiles debate burn-in. He's not even aware that there is even an existence of a concern. I didn't discuss burn in with him at all. I didn't ask him about whether or not he thought the sound had changed. I did not tip him off to anything.

He's liking the Squeezebox and upon familiarizing himself with mine, wants to get one. He's offered for me to retrieve mine anytime. I told him to hang on to it till he gets his, as I'm in no hurry because I don't have my new external hard drive for it. So it'll be interesting to see if he notices the sound changing over time, and if he notices the difference when he gets his and I pick mine up.

I'll post again if he describes anything to me that I think is of interest to the original poster of this thread PhilNYC.

Just for the record, I'm as curious as PhilNYC is. But I don't really care either way of the outcome in this instance. I just thought this was a unique opportunity because of the circumstances.

However, I just received some new IC's and put them in my system this afternoon. I wanted to see if I heard a difference right out of the box, but mistakenly changed the volume setting during the switch.    So no observation. But I will let them run for a few weeks, then do a switch in as controlled a manner as I can, just for fun.

Cheers

[bprice2]

I just received my Bolder modded SB3 yesterday. Dropped it off to my computer tech guru guy. He's interested in upgrading his audio setup and is asking for advice and guidance as to what's out there.

He was intrigued when I told him about the Squeezebox...

This might be the most interesting post in this thread.  Can't wait to hear the end of your story.  Let us know your friend's findings, assuming there are any.

[Daygloworange]

Nothing to report yet, I was over picking up my computer from getting reformatted. He hasn't mentioned anything regarding the sound changing, and I didn't ask. I don't want to tip him off or anything. It's very possible he doesn't ever notice anything.

As far as my IC's, I dunno, they have been playing 24/7 since I installed them. It feels as thought the soundstage has deepend and that they've smoothed out since I first put them in. I'll give it another couple of weeks and then do a careful switch and see if I can perceive a difference.

I will give an honest account here guys. If I don't hear a difference, I'll say so. If I do, then I will say so as well. I'm not on one side or the other. Just for the record, I have noticed speakers break in from new. I've built 6 pairs over the last year.

I'll post again regarding the Squeezebox. I will not be able to tell you whether I heard a break in. It will have several hundred hours on it by the time I get it back. I will be doing PS swaps with another Squeezebox owner or two. I'll post my impressions on that, and I will report about the IC's in a bit.

Cheers

[nunhgrader]

I find the topic interesting on both sides of the arguement. I never dismiss either side of the coin because there is always room for mistakes, inaccurate science, the nature of theories in general etc.

I love the links provided especially the Positive Feedback review reprint.

Off topic: Kinda cool tone test - http://ifihada.com/~jbp/bounce.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjakemandell.com%2Ftonedeaf%2F

Another one (kinda neat): http://ifihada.com/~jbp/bounce.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftonometric.com%2Fadaptivepitch%2F

Great post!