Reference 3a....worth a listen

drphoto · « **on:** 30 Jun 2003, 11:52 pm »

I heard the Reference 3a monitors last week. I won't do a review, but anyone looking for speakers should put them on their list. I listened 5 minutes and told the dealer I wanted to schedule and in home demo. They are worthy of the hype.

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 01:12 am »

can you play rock or orchestral pieces at good spls with these?

nathanm · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 01:39 am »

Well, at two and a half thousand dollars for a mini-monitor

I would hope they would live up to some serious hype! HA! For that dough they oughtta play whatever you send them, and proudly!

I must admit, the slanty cabinet and piano black finish calls my name. And a speaker which allows for food preparation to be performed on it is an added bonus. Heck, the Reference 3A logo is even cool in a House Industries kinda way. (the company logo is the main sonic attribute I look for in speakers you see...

)

What was the room size\speaker placement when you heard them?

cyounkman · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 03:47 am »

As you can imagine, I was rubbing my hands together as I read this...

drphoto - They are quite a remarkable speaker, particularly if you are looking for musical realism as opposed to audiophile attributes alone (although they'll do all the usual tricks). What kind of system did you hear them in? I assume you heard the Reference 3A [company name] De Capo i [model]?

As it happens, there's a Reference 3A Owners Circle here on the site. Feel free to stop in to share your impressions or to pose questions to members who already own them. -- R3A Owners Circle

JoshK - Rock and Orchestral at ear-splitting volumes--Check.
Caveat: Since the De Capos (and the rest of the r3a line) are quite efficient (92 db, 8 ohm) they are very often paired with low-power amps. This is a wonderful thing, and there are a lot of very happy owners using De Capos with low-power amps. However, system matching is still a prerequisite to good sound, and if your tastes run to demanding repertoire and loud listening, choose an amp that is compatible. If the amp has the goods, the De Capos will deliver.

In my system, I drive the MM De Capos (the older model--largely the same) with a 150-watt solid state integrated, and I have headroom to burn. The speakers will play much louder than I ever listen in my 14'x19' room.

nathan - The De Capos are certainly not the cheapest way to make the most noise; but they give you a lot of options for driving them. If you've ever owned average-sensitivity monitors, you may have experienced the irritating realization that they sound their best with pricey 300-watt monoblocks. Not exactly the typical system for a $1700 standmount.

They aren't really 'mini-' monitors, though--at 11"x13"x15" (WDH) they are pretty chunky for a standmount. (I just put up a thread with some pictures.) They also have an 8" main driver--a little more visually imposing than all the slimline 5.5-6" main drivers in your average monitor. But it frees you from the dynamic limitations of a smaller driver; and produces enough bass for most music. (I am enjoying the latest Massive Attack and Radiohead albums sans subwoofer, thank you.)

It's not like I get a comission, though. Buy whatever you want.

KevinW · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 05:39 am »

I've heard the R3A deCapos in a shop, and I was quite impressed. This is the style of speaker that I like...

1. high sensitivity so they work with low powered tube amps. I've heard a lot of amps, I think there's something quite magical about the SET sound, as it just makes the music sound more alive.

2. If I recall, they also have no crossover on the woofer, which is allowed to roll off naturally. I am experimenting with a crossoverless speaker, and the naturalness and dynamics of an unfettered driver is noticeable. I also believe that the tweeter has only a capacitor as the high pass, which means it's a first order. If you have to make an XO, then first order typically has the least impact on the sound because it has the fewest components. Does anyone know for sure if I am correct about their design, and even better, the frequency of the XO point?

Also, I think Nathan was trying to say that he was going to spend that muchy money on speakers, he would rather have a pair Wilson Watt Puppies

nathanm · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 06:14 am »

Quote

Also, I think Nathan was trying to say that he was going to spend that muchy money on speakers, he rather have a pair Wilson Watt Puppies

Oh yes indeed - Wilson, one of the most value-conscious companies in hifi!

I want to pay 30 grand for a speaker gaudy enough that the Stereophile graphics department has to Photoshop out the unsightly velcro strips for the cover shot! Sheesh! (in this sentence Photoshop is used as a verb) And what's with those octagon driver cutouts anyway? Bleech! Other than that, they are quite fetching. Moreso in person, I would imagine.

But seriously, I would be curious how the DeCapos compare to my HR-824s. Similar configuration - 8" woofers + tweeter in similar sized cabinet. (Certainly the Decapos have the edge in the looks department, but is it worth an extra $1750???) So far the Mackies are the only speakers in my admittedly limited listening experience that have bass which belies their size. So I know it's possible to have bass in a small cabinet.

JackStraw · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 01:49 pm »

I heard the DeCapos a few years back. Definitely a detailed presentation with eardrum endangering volume capabilities.

But, they've changed this to the DeCapo i, right? What are the changes? Did they make the speaker better? I've heard some theories that the changes actually made the speaker worse, but that is all speculative hearsay... can any experts among us give further info?

drphoto · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 02:21 pm »

Yes it was the De Capro i that I heard. They were in a pretty small room with no sound treatment. At first they were hooked up to ASL 18 watt/ch SET integrated.The sound stage was very weird so I asked the guy if they were wired 'out of phase'....sure enough they were. After fixing that they sounded pretty great. I thought they did the disappearing trick better than anything I've ever heard. And with that tube amp....mids were wonderful. But they seemed a bit rolled off in both the hi and low end. So I had the dude hook 'em up to a Musical Fidelity SS amp. Much better detail, but sort of harsh. Don't know if this is characteristic of MF amps, or just because it hadn't been warmed up.

Anyway, I get the idea that the De Capro is very revealing. I really want to hear them in my system.

Oh, btw: the piano black finish was absolutely flawless. I'd probably go w/ the standard wood though as piano black scratches too easily.

audiojerry · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 03:33 pm »

drphoto,
I think you are mixing DeCapo with Leondardo DeCaprio, and coming up with Decapro, unless Leanardo has his own line of speakers. I'll bet if he did, there might be more female audiophiles.

drphoto · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 04:03 pm »

Whoops...yes you're right it is De Capo.

nathanm · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 04:07 pm »

Think what they could charge if Leonardo DeCaprio endorsed these speakers!

Quote from: Audiocircle website

Page 2 of 1

A rip in the fabric of space and time!?

cyounkman · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 04:46 pm »

Quote from: KevinW

Does anyone know for sure if I am correct about their design, and even better, the frequency of the XO point?

Kevin - The De Capos' tweeter rolls off at 3000 hz (6db /octave), and the main driver is driven directly (no XO).

nathan - The reason so many small speakers these days have so little bass is the use of those fashionable small drivers. No one wants a wide baffle, so adult-size drivers are out of the question. But you can just buy a one-note HT sub-thumper and it'll all be fine...

I don't know of any De Capo owners in beautiful WI, but maybe you can find a dealership and take in your 824's?

I too have wondered about the velcro strips; I too use P'shop as a verb.

Jack - The 'i' model has a new cabinet and a new tweeter, better binding posts, etc. There is contention about the difference in sound. I haven't done a head-to-head, but I've heard the 'i' model, and it's largely similar. At some point I'll take my older model into the shop and compare to the 'i'.

dr photo - They are very revealing. It forces you to go through a lot of amplifiers before finding one that works. (Don't expect great results with whatever equipment you happen to pick out.) Which MF gear did you hear?

I haven't heard anything about DiCaprio's line of speakers since that ill-timed press release at Cannes...

MaxCast · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 06:57 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

I want to pay 30 grand for a speaker gaudy enough that the Stereophile graphics department has to Photoshop out the unsightly velcro strips for the cover shot! Sheesh! (in this sentence Photoshop is used as a verb)

Would one capitalize the P when using Photoshop as a verb?

just wondering......

drphoto · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 09:53 pm »

BTW: The same dealer had the new Meadowlark Kestral. While they seemed like a very nice speaker, they didn't impress me like the R3a. Of course, I think they're some $800 less too.

nathanm · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: MaxCast

Would one capitalize the P when using Photoshop as a verb? just wondering......

One would, or Adobe will sue you! It says right there in the the SLA!

Quote

I don't know of any De Capo owners in beautiful WI, but maybe you can find a dealership and take in your 824's?

Hmmm, I am guessing no. Are there dealers listed on the website? I'd look myself, but last time I was there all I could do was watch the masturbatory exploits of the web designer unfold over countless stretches of time. By then I had already clicked off elsewhere. It might take another 15 seconds for a dealer link to display. Who knows?

gonefishin · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 10:40 pm »

I'd say they're definitely worth a listen. I auditioned a pair of L'integral Nouveau's a couple years back...they do have a nice sound to them...and a cool piano black finish. I tried the speakers with a couple different amps...ranging from 2A3, 300B,el34 and 845 amps...all in all...I thought they did have good sound...but preferred coincident super-eclipses for overall tone, presentation, detail and dynamics.

cyounkman · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 11:24 pm »

nathan - For some reason, they don't list dealers on the website. I have no idea why manufacturers omit this kind of information. You can reach them at [email protected]. Apparently they are closed for the month of August.

If you're ever in Toronto, give me a call...

KeithR · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jul 2003, 11:49 pm »

Beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder Nathan.

I happen to love metallic autofinishes for example, vs the drab overly done rosewood/cherry/mahogany/stained/varnished wood that belongs in the 1970s household with green appliances

Also to note, Wilson has sold more speakers over 10k than ANYONE in the business. I actually think they can be a wonderful value depending on the system, and proper Wilson setup. And resale is very easy with Wilson. Not to mention anyone who shops for a flagship speaker, almost always will demo a pair of Watt/Puppys...you may not like them, but you will hear them.

Cheers,

KeithR

Quote from: nathanm

Oh yes indeed - Wilson, one of the most value-conscious companies in hifi! I want to pay 30 grand for a speaker gaudy enough that the Stereophile graphics department has to Photoshop out the unsightly velcro strips for the cover shot! Sheesh! (in this sentence Photoshop is used as a verb) And what's with those octagon driver cutouts anyway? Bleech! Other than that, they are quite fetching. Moreso in person, I would imagine.

But seriously, I would be curious how the DeCapos co ...

TIC · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jul 2003, 02:05 am »

Hey Doc,

I own the De Capos (not "i") and I think they are very good! I've owned a lot of monitor type speakers over the years, and these are my favorites. They have very good bass for a stand mount and also produce a very realistic soundstage.

These speakers are pretty flexible. I currently run them off of a pair of BottleHead Paramours (3.5-5 watts) or a Dodd 8 Watter. In my medium sized room, they will play louder than I can tolerate. I also know of several people that power them with SS amps. The good thing is that you can buy a great low-med powered amp (SS or tube) for moderate bucks. No need to spend thousands of dollars for big power!

Enjoy,

TIC

BikeWNC · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jul 2003, 02:24 am »

TIC,

This is OT but, can you tell me how you like the Dodd amp? How does it compare with the Bottlehead amp or other low power tube amps?

Andy