Angelus is Coming!

Scotty · « **Reply #120 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 04:36 am »

SuperFi, Has received a lot of flack for his hyperbole and the retail price of his two-way loudspeaker. The proposed retail price is right in line with the 5to1 markup ratio necessary to make a profit at the B&M dealer level. He has $240 in the drivers and the cost of crossover parts and the enclosure materials plus labor. Cheaper labor with a less complex crossover and a simpler box would result in a lower price for a different product made with the same raw drivers. The designs' superior radiation pattern on and off axis is counterbalanced by the fact that the woofer tends to act like a wave guide for the tweeter. When the woofer reproduces
low frequency information the increased excursion upsets it's relationship with the tweeter which can result in response anomolies in the frequency region covered by the tweeter. This is good reason to limit the low frequency response of the system. The other temptation offered by the co-axial nature of the driver is to take advantage of the wave guide effect and lower the crossover point of the tweeter too close to it's resonant frequency and increase the amount harmonic distortion that the tweeter produces. How the speaker fares in the listening room when compared to more conventional designs with their built in lobing errors remains to be seen. If the tweeter isn't crossed over too low it should be a pleasant sounding loudspeaker that competes well against other two-way designs.
Scotty

Double Ugly · « **Reply #121 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 05:22 am »

Quote from: SuperFi on 3 Dec 2006, 02:59 am

Quote from: Double Ugly on 3 Dec 2006, 02:48 am
Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:49 pm
Forgive me: But isn't that a bit like asking a bulemic to review a restaurant?

Maybe you're still on the defensive from some of the comments made prior to mine, but I will state again that my intent was to honestly answer your question. If you choose to summarily dismiss it, so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

Regards,

-Jim

Dude, lighten up. Didn't the little razz smiley key you in that I was having a little fun?

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not uptight about anything, least of all anything to do with audio. It's a hobby, not a way of life for me.

I just thought you might've misconstrued my intent.

SuperFi · « **Reply #122 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 05:36 am »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 3 Dec 2006, 05:22 am

Quote from: SuperFi on 3 Dec 2006, 02:59 am
Quote from: Double Ugly on 3 Dec 2006, 02:48 am
Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:49 pm
Forgive me: But isn't that a bit like asking a bulemic to review a restaurant?

Maybe you're still on the defensive from some of the comments made prior to mine, but I will state again that my intent was to honestly answer your question. If you choose to summarily dismiss it, so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

Regards,

-Jim

Dude, lighten up. Didn't the little razz smiley key you in that I was having a little fun?

Thanks for the tip, but I'm not uptight about anything, least of all anything to do with audio. It's a hobby, not a way of life for me.

I just thought you might've misconstrued my intent.

No worries ... just thought I'd slip a funny in there, but I seem to have missed!

SuperFi · « **Reply #123 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 05:44 am »

OK, so far we've got the following suggested reviewers:

Marc Mickelson
Doug Blackburn
Doug Schneider
Jim Merod
Larry Cox

The poll, while still early and few responses vs. # of views, seems heavily canted toward online magazines.

So far so good! Anyone else I should be considering?

shep · « **Reply #124 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:28 am »

Harry Pearson!

shep · « **Reply #125 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:38 am »

DONT JUMP ON ME!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #126 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:42 am »

Quote from: SuperFi on 3 Dec 2006, 05:44 am

OK, so far we've got the following suggested reviewers:

Marc Mickelson
Doug Blackburn
Doug Schneider
Jim Merod
Larry Cox

The poll, while still early and few responses vs. # of views, seems heavily canted toward online magazines.

So far so good! Anyone else I should be considering?

Hello Chris,
I've thought of one....Scott Faller.......writes now for enjoythemusic.com . He's also posted reviews at TNT Audio....both online sites. He's a straight shooter, owns some nice equipment....and a member here.
You can find him in the Gateway Circle...regional circle for St. Louis area.

Chris

SuperFi · « **Reply #127 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 03:42 pm »

Marc Mickelson
Doug Blackburn
Doug Schneider
Jim Merod
Larry Cox
Harry Pearson
Scott Faller

SuperFi · « **Reply #128 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: shep on 3 Dec 2006, 10:38 am

DONT JUMP ON ME!

No jumping, don't worry. Hary still has his holdouts!

SuperFi · « **Reply #129 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: Scotty on 3 Dec 2006, 04:36 am

SuperFi, Has received a lot of flack for his hyperbole and the retail price of his two-way loudspeaker. The proposed retail price is right in line with the 5to1 markup ratio necessary to make a profit at the B&M dealer level. He has $240 in the drivers and the cost of crossover parts and the enclosure materials plus labor. Cheaper labor with a less complex crossover and a simpler box would result in a lower price for a different product made with the same raw drivers. The designs' superior radiation pattern on and off axis is counterbalanced by the fact that the woofer tends to act like a wave guide for the tweeter. When the woofer reproduces
low frequency information the increased excursion upsets it's relationship with the tweeter which can result in response anomolies in the frequency region covered by the tweeter. This is good reason to limit the low frequency response of the system. The other temptation offered by the co-axial nature of the driver is to take advantage of the wave guide effect and lower the crossover point of the tweeter too close to it's resonant frequency and increase the amount harmonic distortion that the tweeter produces. How the speaker fares in the listening room when compared to more conventional designs with their built in lobing errors remains to be seen. If the tweeter isn't crossed over too low it should be a pleasant sounding loudspeaker that competes well against other two-way designs.
Scotty

Hey Scotty,

Thanks for the tech tips!

When I originally posted I thought it was more of a bulletin-board sort of thing, where you might post a simple advertisement. What ensued has been interesting, which has led me to the "Trusted Reviewer" poll.

Incidentally, whereas it may be traditional to go 5x cost to retail for B&M, it was based on the heat taken here that we crunched lower than that. Most folks wouldn't necessarily know what it takes to bring something to market, especially if it's being made domestically. Direct marketing is fine, but the market is self limiting to those who manage to find out about the products - which means, as a sole retail strategy, it's going to be a tougher row to hoe if you want to make a living.

I agree with some of the discussion that lowers the boom on B&M stores that are just box-movers. IMHO: Stores need to add value, and part of that is in-home auditioning and accepting trades, as well as loaner equipment should something fail. Smaller shops and home-based shops are able to take a chunk out of the market by taking up the slack left by the larger competitors. To lose the local dealer would deal a deadly blow to our industry, though. The internet may have democratized the market, but it also commoditized it ... and consumers simply looking at the bottom line of immediate gratification had no problem finding dealers to sell them items at a discount. But when it comes time for service or loaners, the price of the discount becomes apparent.

As I mentioned earlier, it appears as if we've moved from a Free-Market Economy to a Flea-Market Economy and even luxury and specialty goods are not immune. When you apply commodity economics to a luxury market you facilitate a new breed of product - one that has the appearance of being high end but has a toss-away build quality and longevity. But you can't apply this economic philosophy to goods that are actually built to a level commensurate with the market they deem to represent.

I do agree that direct-marketed items can be of excellent value, and it is an especially rewarding method for things that have a very niche market (electrodynamic dipole speakers, for instance). For a company that requires a larger market, direct marketing is a suicide mission. It has a limited lifespan unless a company constantly updates its products and recycles and re-churns its client list. It's nice as a side-line or a retirement business, but if you want to support a staff and make a regular living it can be a difficult mission. People have done it (ACI, CIA, Outlaw among the more prominent ones), but that doesn't mean it's easy or even advisable.

So I'm not knocking the direct-market and DIY end of things, but by the same token I think that traditional retail should be given a little more slack.

Chrs

SuperFi · « **Reply #130 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 12:30 am »

John marks posted this article over on the Asylum - thought some might be interested to read it.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2742

Imperial · « **Reply #131 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 12:57 am »

I'd think it was a given to get Srajan Ebaen of Six Moons to do the honors.
If its an angel somewhere in that sleek cabinet, he'll make the reader a beliver for sure.
Then again. If anything isnt all heaven, he's most likely the first guy to lay it bare, and pluck them feathers...
This then, would bring new meaning to passing with flying colors, as it were...
If this Angelus is created for flight, fly it will.

SuperFi · « **Reply #132 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 01:27 am »

I was wondering when Srajan would get mentioned! OK - he's on the list!

Marc Mickelson
Doug Blackburn
Doug Schneider
Jim Merod
Larry Cox
Harry Pearson
Scott Faller
Srajan Ebaen

WEEZ · « **Reply #133 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 02:28 am »

If Larry Cox won't , maybe Francisco Duran.....

SuperFi · « **Reply #134 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 02:44 am »

Marc Mickelson
Doug Blackburn
Doug Schneider
Jim Merod
Larry Cox
Harry Pearson
Scott Faller
Srajan Ebaen
Francisco Duran

James Romeyn · « **Reply #135 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 05:51 am »

Voodoo, & art, & living breathing mysticalness.....I love it! We need more of this!!!!!

Um....you missed the no religion rule here...

Just kidding. Wish you all the best. Will look for it at a show. Gotta admit it looks stunning in the picture.

PS. You & your speaker are definitely a Srajan kinda thing. Send him your verbiage & I'm sure he'll make room for you! Ommmmmmmmmmm..........

Oh, one last thing regarding the thread title "Angelus is coming". It also came....and went....about 20 years ago under Bau's Spica brand.

SuperFi · « **Reply #136 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 02:51 pm »

Hey Ribbon,

Think about this: Angelus - as a name - came and went almost 55 years ago with JBL, long before Spica.

Thanks for the compliments - we'll be at CES showing passively, and then may get a pair in circulation on an AudioCircle tour sometime afterward.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #137 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 05:44 pm »

SuperFi
I'm 52. Your note about the JBL Angelus almost rings a bell. Tell us about it. We'd never know about this stuff if not for the 'net!
Jimbo

SuperFi · « **Reply #138 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 06:17 pm »

Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net on 13 Dec 2006, 05:44 pm

SuperFi
I'm 52. Your note about the JBL Angelus almost rings a bell. Tell us about it. We'd never know about this stuff if not for the 'net!
Jimbo

Jimbo ... your wish is my command:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1960-c41/page1.jpg

James Romeyn · « **Reply #139 on:** 14 Dec 2006, 01:00 am »

History...laid bare on the 'net, how lovely. Thanks!

Don't tell us you got one of those tweeters laying 'round?