[oris98]

Hi all,

I am considering upgrading my speaker stands from a pair of DIY to something commercially made.   Sound improvement and vibration control is my main goal.  Any suggestions ?
Thanks in advance.

[oris98]

Anyone has any any ideas ?

Thanks again.

[gongos]

Sound Anchor or Skylan.

[jqp]

oris98, what are you using now? Maybe we should know what stands you will NOT consider.

You have nOrh marble 9.0s, which are not very susceptible to vibration issues at all.

They can even sit on furniture, such as end tables, depending on the height that you need them to be.

What about these?


Or you could suspend these 80 pound puppies using some kind of harness:





But seriously, for these Marble 9.0s I would consider looks and stability, i.e. the ability to support 80lbs of drum-shaped marble.

[MaxCast]

You can DIY these.  VERY sturdy and like gongos said, the marble is very dense and shrug off vibs from the drivers.

[oris98]

What I am using now is a pair of 100lbs (each) DIY stands made of 3/4" scrape matel with a 12x12 top and bottom plates and a single 3 inches square pole in between.  The bottom plate has 2 x 1" wheels and 2.5" screws as spike down to the carpet.  The wheels are mainly serve the purpose of easy transportation.   My problem with this stand is that I suspect it cannot control the vibration  well that affecting the bass generated by the M9s.  My cousin proofed to me that a solid stand make a big difference to the bass performance by placing his pair of Focus 688 monitors on a cheap stand compared with his new stand made by "FOUNDATION" from Italy.  The bass performance is just night and day even though both stand looks the same with very close construction style (4 poles style).

Since the unquie apperience of the M9s with 4 legs spread out quite wide, a typical monitor stand will not be wide enough for it. 

Gongos, have you try out the Sound anchor or Skylan stands with the M9s before ?  Are you using it ?  Is it wide enough for M9s' feets  ?   Are you happy with the bass ? 

Many thanks again.

[jqp]

Hmmm...

Don't compare the vibration of the Marble 9.0s to another speaker/stand combination. They are much more immune to vibration issues. I am sure that some speakers need a sound isolation system because of the cabinets.

I am not saying there can't be vibration issues, but in my mind I cannot imagine vibration issues caused by any particular stand under the Marble 9.0s.

Put your hand on the Marble 9.0s when playing good tight punchy bass - you can't feel any vibration coming from the 80 lb, 2 inch thick drums. Any vibrations you are sensing in your room are surely coming from the sound outside of the cabinets - I was going to ask if you had wooden floors, what kind of walls.

Can you play music in your room such that you feel vibrations in the stands? Yes. But I doubt they are coming from the 9.0s, probably from the floor itself.

My concern would be that you buy new speaker stands and the issue does not go away, if it is an architectural issue.

[oris98]

I do believe this may be an architectural issue.  I strongly suspect that the two wheels and the 2.5" long bolts underneath the stands that act as the spikes onto the carpet are the issues.  I may just have the wheels and bolts cut out and replacing with 4 audiopoints spike directly on to the carpet.  I hope this may produce improved the bass performance.  Don't get me wrong that I do not have good bass from the M9s.  I just want to maximize the clean bass output from it.    Since all my components (Source + preamp and AMP) are all vibration dampened very well, the only things left are the speakers. 

I am not sure if I need to fill the poles with any lead shots to futher reduce the feedback from the airborn virbration in my setup.

Any comments are welcome. Thanks.

[jqp]

Yes there is no question that the Marble 9.0s will produce plenty of chest-thumping base, yes good subwoofers can free up the midrange coming from those Scanspeak Revelator woofers, etc.

Well, I am not a room acoustics expert    And I feel that I am fortunate in that my listening area is sitting on a concrete slab with thick carpet pad and carpet, wall to wall for effectively a 25x25 ft area (with bathroom and closets in that space).

It sounds as if your stands may be vibrating sympathetically with certain frequencies, and also in conjunction with the structure of your room.

Can you put your hand on the column of your stands and feel it vibrate. Can you hear it vibrate (I.e. does it produce soundwaves). Can you feel and or/hear the vibrations from the steel plate at the top or bottom?

What I would try is this: put an old towel on the floor in each speaker position. Make a stand out of (relatively inexpensive) cement blocks/cinder blocks that you can get from Home Depot or Lowes, or you home supply store. This is just temporary, but it is a starting point for your test of what kind of stands may be the solution for you, in the  weight, height, and materials categories. You may need stands that weigh more than the force of certain vibrations. You may need stands that do not resonate at the frequencies of any metal stands. And also, you may want while you are at it to have the speakers at a height of 36" rather than 24, 26, or 28 inches!

I am thinking that maxcast's stands, with rubber feet on hardwood, and none required on carpet, should work very well.

This is not my current setup, but serves as an illustration of how you could experiment...note that the black 9.0s are higher than the white 9.0s

[MaxCast]

If your column is not filled, I'd fill it.  The only other issue I see with your stand is it may be "tippy." ??? 

Can you put a glass of water on it (with the speaker) and see any waves in the glass?

Do you have and are you allowed bass traps in your room?

[oris98]

I am not sure about if the stands are tippy.  I will give it a try.  It is certainly not sand filled.  I thought the stands are made of very heavy scrape matel and weight 100 lbs each, its propably not require any sand filled.  Will it make a difference?  If I have to fill it I will use the microbearings lead shots from Starsoundtechnologies.com.

I also planning on directly coupling audiopoints from the stand to the M9s by making two banana shaped matel brackets (one for the front and one for the tail end) and mount the audiopoints to it (tips point at the speaker) . This will replacing the use of the 4 legs and minimize the contact of the brass points and the marble casing.  It is still in conceptual design and will be drafted out for futher consideration. 

Bass traps are something that I've been wanting to do for  long time.   Does it really help ?   I have the 2 ACI Force Subs and I may need to use the R-DEA (equ.) to treat bass as well.   
How can I place some pictures to show my current setup ?  This way, you guys can comment what kind of problems that I am having ??

Thanks again.

[MaxCast]

To post a pic you must upload a pic to the internet or this site by creating a gallery.  Then you can use the picture icon above to insert a pic.

Filling your stand was recommended because you are looking for the best performance with what you have.  Plus everyone with fillable stands does it.  Second, adding spikes to your stand base was also recommended.  Before you make new legs for your 9's you may want to try a piece of rubber under each leg.

You have two Force subs, excellent.  How do you crossover them to the 9's?
IMO, bass traps and D-Res will do more for you sound than anything else.
Have you taken any freaquency response measurements with your current set up?
See the accoustics circle
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=73.0
lots of good posts on room eq and tuning.

[oris98]

I tried putting plastic underneath the legs of the M9s and muddy up the bass. I placed 4 isoclean support disc on each leg helped a little.  This is what make me feel there is still room for improvement for bass response if the proper munipulation done to the contact to the top plate adn the the lower plate to the carpet.  I need the spikes to drain the vibration down to the concrete floor under the carpet.

I set the XO of my ACI Force to 80hz and it intergates very well with the M9s.  I am not contemplating if I should upgrade the 2x Force to a pair of ACI LFM (Force with 2x10" drivers each).
It will certainly increase the low end dynamics and move a lot more air.  I may persure that after finished tweeking the speaker stands and room treatment.  Any suggestion of which brand name of room treatment products should I use ?  Or should I just start with some DIY bass trap first ?

thanks again.

[MaxCast]

I'd try D-res and bass traps.  This will give you a reading of the room and some adjustability.

[SteveSatch]

oris98, what are you using now? Maybe we should know what stands you will NOT consider.

You have nOrh marble 9.0s, which are not very susceptible to vibration issues at all.

They can even sit on furniture, such as end tables, depending on the height that you need them to be.

What about these?

where are these stands from?

[jqp]

where are these stands from?

These stands are the marble stands from nOrh.

[oris98]

Hi guys,

I finally got a chance to check the top plate of my stands as Maxcast suggested.  One of them is tippy.   It is somewhat lobsided slightly with uneven surface (1/2" scrape metal sheet).  I also measured that the hight from the carpet to the top plate of both speakers are uneven.  One is 23" and the other one is 23.25".   What is the optimum hight for the stands for M9s ?   I am removing my speaker and the outboard XO box from the stand and ready to rectify the top plate situation and adding 4 audio points (1.5") as spikes for each speakers to replace the screws and wheels in the next few days.  If 23" is a common length for the stands used for M9, I will keep it at that hight unless you guys tell me 23" (total stand hight for M9s)is not an optimized hight for M9s.

Thanks again.

[jqp]

Optimum height for Marble 9.0s...

There is not a standard height. The concept was that 24" would be a good height, but keep in mind that the legs point the speaker up at an angle.

General consensus is that the tweeters should be at ear-height, pointing to your ears in the sweet spot. For me this means stands higher that 24" (can't remember the exact height) and putting wood (magical wood) under the back legs of the speakers to point the tweeters directly at my ears.

So the Marble 9.0s are not standard speakers, nor is the placement likely to be achieved in the standard way compared to box speakers. Ultimately it depends on your listening room and what you like. The speakers are very flexible because of the great dispersion, and you also have to show off the beautiful marble.