[Letitroll98]

Some more information here: http://www.analogplanet.com/content/worlds-best-record-cleaning-machine

Michael puts in better words than I can.

I saw this in operation at the Capital City Audio Fest show and it truly is completely silent, at least compared to any vacuum machine I've used.  As noted by others, somewhat expensive.  You can buy ultrasonic cleaning machines online for much cheaper, but nothing with a big enough cleaning tray to do a whole LP, at best you could do a half at a time.

[jimdgoulding]

Yes, Let, that one might be the cat's pajamas.  I use a Spin Clean myself.  Works good and it's cheap. 

[SteveFord]

I haven't tried this yet but I plan to:

Here's some information from the Library of Congress and a vendor for the solution:

http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

http://www.labdepotinc.com/p-23169-tergitol-15-s-7-surfactant.php?c=498

[WireNut]

(1) Bingo!! WET play is the BEST vinyl play.

Water on my electronics gives me the wet willy's.

[yeldarb]

I have used Aleene's Tacky Glue (WalMart craft dept) on many albums with amazing results.  Had a Nautilus copy of Court and Spark that was so noisy I quit playing it.  Mold, probably.  After glue cleaning, it sounds like a new album.  I nearly threw it out several times.  I did throw away many that I could have saved, with glue.  There are some that won't be improved.  They were probably bad pressings to start with.

I have also used Phoenix with microfiber towels.  I think it really needs to be rinsed with distilled water for best results.

And I have used Gruv Glide and don't note any problems with it.

I no longer clean with velvet / solution discwasher type brushes every time, but do use a carbon fiber brush and Zerostat.

[jschwenker]

The disk cleaning I do is pretty straightforward - just a VPI 16.5 machine with MoFi Record Wash and Deep Cleaner fluids.

The place where I might be able to contribute more to the discussion is in the area of on-turntable pre playing clean-off.  For that, I have made a long term effort to understand the "In The Groove" roller cleaner.  Living in a somewhat drier and dustier climate, I've found it delightful to be able to pick up the majority of particles that inevitably settle on the disk, just before playing.  My records have never been quieter using any other tool for this job.  That all said, I do not buy into some of the other claims made for the product and have done a bit of battle with other of its less than perfect properties.

1)  As an only tool record cleaner:  From my experience, I do not believe the "In The Groove" roller is all that good at retrieving materials from well down in the grooves or at pulling off fluid or sticky residues - hence the machine cleaning as primary.

2)  Roller residue:  I have experienced very rare occasions where the roller ends up leaving small amounts of its material behind on the disk.  (typically appears under strong sidelight illumination as lines where the edges of the roller have tracked - and sonically as a repeating pattern, similar to a disk molding under fill situation)
a)  Some of my experiences of this kind have seemed to be limited to disks that might have a particularly different vinyl formulation, or maybe retain some of an unusual plasticizer coating that interacts with the roller.  (in all cases it has been possible to remove the material with a good VPI machine re-cleaning)
b)  More recent experience has given me the suspicion that the roller material is best maintained in a very "well cured" condition.  After water cleaning basically per the instructions (and comments below) I suggest WEEKS if not more of dry out time, to allow all moisture to completely migrate out of the material.  (keeping more than one roller around for rotation - if you play vinyl constantly, as I suspect you might, reading this)  Also, when opening a new roller, I've taken to again allowing weeks for the roller to evolve out any volatiles after removing the roller wrapping.

3)  Static:  Especially in the dry climate, the roller naturally does tend to create a fair charge of static.  I obtained a Furutech Destat blower for this and it works like a champ.  However, in my particular setup, the static charge does not seem to create significant audio consequences and I end up using the Destat more for the purpose of keeping the disk from attracting dust back to it - or just skipping that step.


4)  Roller direction:  Again a lot of experimentation occurred here.  I have settled on a pattern of from the center out radial strokes (I had to fabricate a center clamp that was of low enough profile to allow this direction of use) generally overlapping by a minimum of half roller widths.  This seems to give the greatest possibility of cleaning near the outer edge on records that may have a fatter outer edge lip.  Per unit instructions, use fairly minimal pressure.  Roller direction has not seemed to make much difference in the residue issue - especially after discovery of the curing out process above. 

5)  Cleaning:  I find that the roller can be left to get pretty significantly loaded up before it will cease to do its job well.  (may mean using some greater overlapping as it gets dirtier)  I don't depart much from the cleaning instruction description.  I do substitute clean lint free synthetic wipers for the "paper towel" - one wet to gently wipe the surface under the flowing water and one dry to blot dry as is described.

Sure hope these gas-bag length comments help somebody and I'd be happy to hear of other's experiences...
John

[lakeallen]

My regimen is extreme but I plan on archiving albums into hirez files and want to get them as clean/quiet as possible.

1. Put the record in a "Groovemaster" record cleaning aid (round plexiglass disks same size as label) and hand clean using lab grade glass spray bottles with KAB cleaning brushes. I now use "Audio Intelligent" cleaning solutions. I use a different brush for each side and dip/clean the brushes in 99% isopropyl after each use. After cleaning I rinse using a handheld bottle of deionized water.


2. Next the record goes over to my "Nitty Gritty Mini-Pro" vacuum record cleaning machine for 2-3 minutes of cleaning/vacuuming again using A.I. solution. I clean the velvet lips after each using using a small brush (comes with Mini-Pro) and deionized water.


3. My final step is to clean the record in a KLAudio ultrasonic record cleaner filled with reverse-osmosis/D.I. water with a 3 minute clean cycle and a 3 minute dry cycle. The record comes out dry and is put in a new Mobile Fidelity sleeve and ready for archiving and/or listening.



Extreme and expensive to get the tools but I intend on offering an archiving service and have been working on refining my process.

[audionut44]

That KLAudio system is insanely impressive!

I'm using the spin clean to periodically clean and a CF brush before each cleaning.  I definitely want to upgrade my method as I'm not happy with the result.  The Spin Clean does remove oil and finger prints well but there are still some pops and crackles that I would like to eliminate.  I'm thinking of picking up a Record Doctor V vacuum system which I would use to dry the records that were just cleaned in the SC.  I am on a budget unfortunately.

[MaxCast]

you can fashion a vacuum cleaner from the crevice tool of a small shop vac.  I find it sucks pretty good after a dip in the spin clean.
I would like to send some spin cleaned/vac'd LP's to someone with a vpi and see if it improves them further, some day.

[missouricatman]

I know this is a long thread and about every imaginable way of cleaning records looks to have been discussed, but as a new AudioCircle member, it seemed like a good place to post one of my own experiences that might be helpful to other members.

First, with over 6,000 records in this house, there is plenty of cleaning to do.  I started my career in radio back in the 70's, so vinyl's hardly new to me.  Not that we actually cleaned records back then - we wore them out and if the song had some staying power, just hoped we'd get a new copy. My first attempts at cleaning then, were for my own records and involved the same stuff many use.  Audio Intelligent's line of fluids work quite well, but being a penny-pincher I moved to home brews based on heavily diluted enzyme cleaners, IPA and R/O water from Whole Foods. Also started by cleaning with brushes & low lint (no such thing as lint free) dish towels, but quickly shifted to a DIY record cleaner and that's what I still use today.

My record cleaning gizmo may be slightly different.  True, it does use a large shop-vac for suction, but is outfitted with a 4" wide stair cleaning nozzle from a steam cleaning machine, which means it pretty nicely fits over an LP.  The nozzle edges have been rounded off with very fine grit sandpaper, and covered with velvet strips cut from the self-adhesive replacement MOFI pads for their record cleaning brush. I should say cleaning is all done by holding the nozzle & not sure I'd want to change that.  I can hold it one way to hit the lead-in and know I'm really applying full suction there, then shift to holding it in a way that fully gets the rest of the LP in one pass.

An old Garrard idler wheel "record changer" turntable gives me speed control.  Normally clean and vac steps are all done at 16 RPM, my thought being that no bristle I can get in the groove is stiff enough to track it well at any higher speed.  Admittedly, the suction of my system does at times overcome the grip of the record on the turntable, so I do use my free hand on the label area to keep it down.  I know a mod with a clamp would be a good thing to do, but just have never gotten there . . .

So the basic steps are:

(1) One pass with the vac to remove any surface debris, followed by a quick brush off of the nozzle.

(2) A quick wet down with whatever solution I think is best (very clean record will just get water at this point) and a light pass with a nylon brush held just off parallel to the record, to try and keep the brush from pushing anything into the groove. Amazing how much dangerous, abrasive surface debris gets removed at this point.

(3) The main cleaning run, using whatever brush and fluid I think best.  If it's a clean record, a carbon fiber brush.  If it's a pre "microgroove" disk, the stiffer, more coarse nylon brush, or one of the edging pad paint brushes others have used. Clean records normally just get the IPA and water solution. A really dirty record may be set to soak for 20 minutes in the enzyme solution, followed by the iPA solution.

(4) As many r/o water rinses as I deem necessary (farmers are taught to triple-rinse chemical containers prior to disposal and there are times when I do the same).  Rinse brush is carbon fiber, although I also use the MOFI velvet brush.

I should say I know there are much more pure waters out there and it's certainly possible the r/o water could be leaving something in the groove, but my suspicion is that since the vac is strong enough to remove all fluid in a couple of passes, it's doing a pretty good job of removing any contaminants, whether from the water, the fluids or the junk on the record.  At any rate, I've been happy with the results. I do digitize most records after playing them through once and my recording process has me cranking it up with headphones on, listening closely to fadeouts, so if there's anything in the groove, I do think I hear it. I certainly can tell the difference, for instance, between a clean groove, one that has a bit of whoosh or roar from cleaning solution film, and the roar of lands distorted by a combination of heat and pressure.

One good thing about my suction nozzle is that it's clear. If I'm working with a disk that had been played many, many times in a smoke-filled room, I do at times see the yellow tinge.  When I'm going through my rinse steps, I know when the rinse water is clear.

Would I be happier with one of the commercial wet-vac machines & commercial fluids? Possibly.  Would I be able to save steps, put more time into listening to the music? Sure. After all, it can easily take me 15 minutes to clean both sides of an average LP.  But the thing is, I'm a tad obsessive-compulsive, so I actually derive some satisfaction out of the routine and for some reason I find myself thinking that the musicians and engineers put a lot of time and effort into cutting the record, so why shouldn't I take a little time bringing it back?  And really, so long as it makes me feel good and gets the job done . . .

So is there anything about my crazy method I really don't like? Well, it's very easy to over dry a record and static buildup can be a problem.  I couldn't live without that blue anti-stat gun!

[missouricatman]

forgot 2 things.

Surfactant - Triton X, available on Amazon.  One drop of that stuff heavily diluted is all you need.

You say somebody spray-painted a room while listening to records and there are itty-bitty paint drops on it now? Pec-12, also from Amazon.  Pec-12 has been used for decades to clean negatives.  A tiny drop on the paint spot, a light rub and you're good to go.

[ACHiPo]

Moved from Discwasher to a Nitty Gritty 1.5 when I bought my Well-Tempered turntable 15 years ago and was very happy (used Record Research cleaning solution).  When I got back into vinyl again this year I picked up a Spin Clean set up.

I'm slowly going through my collection, cleaning records with my new system when I want to listen to them.  My new system uses the Spin Clean to wet-clean the record, using their solution and following their directions for washing.  I then put the record on the Nitty Gritty and vacuum one side 5 revolutions.  I flip the record and if the wet side isn't completely wetted I squirt a liberal amount of Nitty Gritty solution #2 onto the felt and rotate 1-2 revolutions to completely wet the surface, then vacuum 5 revolutions.

After I'm done cleaning I slip the record into a MFSL sleeve, and slip the record and jacket into a vinyl sleeve so I can tell at a glance which records have had the "full monty".

[ctsooner]

I'm looking at making my own Ultrasonic unit.  There is one being offered on a DIY forum (the tank)...then I'll just put together a wooden or plastic unit to hold a motor and spindle....I'm thinking that's better than any of the vacuum units available at any cost.

[ctsooner]

Got my tank today and my motor will com this week along with a spindle, coupler, cord with switch and the rest of the things I needed to make this thing. I also got my Ilford photo fluid and will get water and 99.9% alcohol this week also. I can't wait to get this up and running to clean these things.

[hifi12002]

I made a DYI frame for an ultrasonic cleaning machine.  It works good, but when its done there is a line of debris that adheres to the record when lifted out of the cleaner that was floating on the water. So I still feel the need to run it through the VPI 16.5, but the ultrasonic machine gets out particles the VPI wouldn't.

[ACHiPo]

I made a DYI frame for an ultrasonic cleaning machine.  It works good, but when its done there is a line of debris that adheres to the record when lifted out of the cleaner that was floating on the water. So I still feel the need to run it through the VPI 16.5, but the ultrasonic machine gets out particles the VPI wouldn't.

Nice craftsmanship, hifi!  Just wondering how you know the ultrasonics remove stuff the VPI wouldn't? 

[hifi12002]

Thanks.  I had several records that I had previously cleaned with the VPI that I re-cleaned with the ultrasonic and there was additional material that was released from the surface of the record.  These particular records has either not been played or only played a few times since the VPI cleaning.  If you have the time and inclination, the following thread has a lot of information on ultrasonic cleaning and was the inspiration for the one I made.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-25.html

[ACHiPo]

Thanks.  I had several records that I had previously cleaned with the VPI that I re-cleaned with the ultrasonic and there was additional material that was released from the surface of the record.  These particular records has either not been played or only played a few times since the VPI cleaning.  If you have the time and inclination, the following thread has a lot of information on ultrasonic cleaning and was the inspiration for the one I made.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-25.html

hifi,
Thanks.  I'll check out the thread.  I'm familiar with ultrasonic cleaning, and am a firm believer in it as a cleaning method, especially since it reduces the need for chemicals (although a good surfactant probably still helps).  Also beware that it can be pretty violent at the surface--I suspect that at least some of the stuff you see coming off is vinyl, hopefully just from the machined portions at the edge and hole.  A method used to make sure the ultrasonic transducer works is to put aluminum foil in the solution--it will have small pinholes in it if the ultrasonic is working properly. 

Philosophically I also think vacuuming the surface is a good idea, however, and the two methods to date have been mutually exclusive.

Have you been able to hear a difference between the VPI'd records and ultrasonic records?

[hifi12002]

Thanks again., I haven’t seen any black vinyl residue at the bottom of the tank (yet!) most of what comes off is dust, hair, and just general grime.  The particular ultrasonic cleaner I purchased is a 60kHz machine as compared to the more common 40kHz machine. The higher frequency produces smaller cavitation bubbles and cleans out the grooves better.  Anyway, the previous link has a lot of technical information about ultrasonic cleaning if you have the time to search for it.  The best way I can describe the sonic difference is the sound got clearer, like a veil being lifted from the vinyl.  The highs are crisper and the mids are clearer.  A lot of the records I've cleaned are mid 1960’s to late 80’s vintage and probably have a lot a smoke particles embedded in the grooves of the vinyl; and that’s my guess why it sounds clearer after an ultrasonic wash.

[skolis]

anybody still using vpi 16.5 as their primary (sole) cleaning machine, and if so, does it work?
and any advice? 
Most ( all ) of what I see on here is pretty old info.
thx