Paradisea DAC

nickspicks · « **Reply #340 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm »

w/o having to read 38 pages....
can someone tell me what incoming resolution this thing can handle?

Nick77 · « **Reply #341 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 01:46 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 7 Apr 2007, 09:38 am

GHM what USB driver are you using for the USB direct connection?

Also, for others interested in the USB direct option, don't forget the "USB Plus" version of the Constantine DAC. I really think some may even prefer its sound over the tubed Paradisea versions...

Care to elaborate.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #342 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: nickspicks on 7 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm

w/o having to read 38 pages....
can someone tell me what incoming resolution this thing can handle?

Not too sure as my technical knowledge is very low but I feed it regular redbook digital out of my Squeezebox and also play music and movies with it out of my Denon DVD player so I guess it can receive 24/96. Others more technical will probably be answering your question better.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #343 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: nickspicks on 7 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm

w/o having to read 38 pages....
can someone tell me what incoming resolution this thing can handle?

Not too sure as my technical knowledge is very low but I feed it regular redbook digital out of my Squeezebox and also play music and movies with it out of my Denon DVD player so I guess it can receive 24/96. Others more technical will probably be answering your question better. One thing for sure, movie soundtracks sound better since I use the Paradisea compared to when I was using the Denon direct. I sometimes surprise myself reading the generic at the end of a movie while listening to the music played, I never did that before!

GHM · « **Reply #344 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: NewBuyer on 7 Apr 2007, 09:38 am

GHM what USB driver are you using for the USB direct connection?

Also, for others interested in the USB direct option, don't forget the "USB Plus" version of the Constantine DAC. I really think some may even prefer its sound over the tubed Paradisea versions...

Hi Newbuyer I use Vista. I use the kernal streamer plugin through foobar. When I go into the Foobar output devices I pick KS:USB DAC as my output. There's a new ASIO4all for Vista as well. I can't hear a difference between the two as Vista allows for exclusive control in the audio devices unlike XP. It comes stock ready to bypass the Kmixer.

Quote from: nickspicks on 7 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm

w/o having to read 38 pages....
can someone tell me what incoming resolution this thing can handle?

Yes this unit accepts up to 24 bit / 96 kHz.

For the ones considering USB direct and don't mind having the PC near their equipment. USB direct is a major improvement over going spdif. I know the unit changes over to spdif inside the DAC. The only DAC I've heard with the focus of this USB input Paradisea was Lonewolf's Empirical modified Electrocompaniet ECD-1 DAC(way more money). Let me stress the differences aren't small. You'll know something has changed instantly.The USB input seems to give the PC complete control over this DAC. Just like a monster amplifier that controls a speaker's woofers.

Still trying to understand why. Is it the fact USB is a two way system? I don't know ,but the differences will have you scratching your head.

I was using BNC with my stock unit which sounds great. It still isn't at the level of the USB direct connection.

rajacat · « **Reply #345 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 01:09 am »

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0406/mhdt_laboratory_dac.htm

GHM · « **Reply #346 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 02:39 am »

I would love to see Scott do a review on the new USB+versions using the new design. I think they would blow his mind!

robert1325 · « **Reply #347 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 11:11 am »

My dad is thinking of getting a modded squeezebox or maybe a USB paradisea.... The paradisea is the cheaper option ofcourse ..

He previously owned a 10 year old Wadia 23, could he get a performance near or on the level of this very good but dated CDP?

Thanks

Robert

nickspicks · « **Reply #348 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 11:28 am »

24bit over USB (1.1) is no good. jitter up the ying yang.
Most DACs that offer USB input limit it to 16/48 for incoming signals. which makes sense.

my OPPO 970HD has a usb input, that supposedly can read and play files from any ol USB drive plugged directly in.
I'm trying hard to figure out how to make this sucker be my all in one source/dac..etc.

GHM · « **Reply #349 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 03:10 pm »

I was reading this info off a USB DAC web page.

The DAC has a single digital USB input (no SPDIF inputs). USB unlike SPDIF is bidirectional and therefore has error correction and buffering on both sides. This happens automatically so the data on the disk is identical to what is going out all the time. Also since this interface is asynchronous the clocking problems associated with SPDIF go away. What happens is... On power up of the computer the 2 devices negotiate services. In this case the Cosecant tells the computer it can do 16 bit audio at 32K, 44.1K and 48K. Since the USB receiver only has to handle these 3 frequencies, The clocking to the separate DAC IC has almost no jitter. SPDIF actually has to be synched to the exact frequency of the transport (i.e. if the transport is working at say 44.0896K instead of 44.1K the dac has to sync to that frequency). Therefore there is no interface jitter like you see in SPDIF. So using USB we have a zero error protocol to link the computer to the DAC and very low jitter.

This got me to thinking . If this is the case, the asynchronous clocking in Nick's(Promitheus) DAC isn't needed. Am I correct in thinking this? From listening ..this is the future. Do SB3s have USB outputs? I would love to compare the two DACs. No way to know how they compare until one shows up at the door step.

robert1325 · « **Reply #350 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 03:17 pm »

I'm really looking forward to your comparo between the Paradisea and the Promitheus DAC... my dad does not know wich one to chose

anubisgrau · « **Reply #351 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 10:38 pm »

I can't get what DA chip the new Promitheus DAC uses? 1543?

GHM · « **Reply #352 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 12:56 am »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 8 Apr 2007, 10:38 pm

I can't get what DA chip the new Promitheus DAC uses? 1543?

I think Nick said earlier in the Promitheus thread it would be the 1543. The 1543 has more of a laid back sound over the 1545A used in the Paradisea. The 1545A is more dynamic with more top end energy. Other than that they do sound very similar.

It would be fairer to compare the Mhdt Renaissance II . Hopefully both with the USB connection installed, because if both didn't have this feature there would be no need. The USB DAC linked to a PC will win every time unless you're using the non USB model with an extremely hi end transport IMHO.

That binary error correction and buffering on both sides is a motha!

anthony a. · « **Reply #353 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 01:54 am »

does anyone even own a promitheus dac yet? i can't seem to find any info on it other than the manufacturers site.

GHM · « **Reply #354 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 01:59 am »

Quote from: anthony a. on 9 Apr 2007, 01:54 am

does anyone even own a promitheus dac yet? i can't seem to find any info on it other than the manufacturers site.

I believe he mentioned he would start taking orders tomorrow or tonight depending on what part of the world your in.... after Easter.

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #355 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 03:13 pm »

Quote from: GHM on 9 Apr 2007, 12:56 am

Quote from: anubisgrau on 8 Apr 2007, 10:38 pm
I can't get what DA chip the new Promitheus DAC uses? 1543?

I think Nick said earlier in the Promitheus thread it would be the 1543. The 1543 has more of a laid back sound over the 1545A used in the Paradisea. The 1545A is more dynamic with more top end energy. Other than that they do sound very similar.

It would be fairer to compare the Mhdt Renaissance II . Hopefully both with the USB connection installed, because if both didn't have this feature there would be no need. The USB DAC linked to a PC will win every time unless you're using the non USB model with an extremely hi end transport IMHO.

That binary error correction and buffering on both sides is a motha!

Sorry its the other way around 1545 is laid back but refine sound. THe 1545 is more dynamic and more top end energy

Cheers
nicholas

GHM · « **Reply #356 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 03:40 pm »

Hey Nick did you mean the 1543?

My comments come from owning DACs with both chips. I found in my listening the 1543 not quite as refined as the 1545a nor as dynamic. I'm sure the design of the entire Dac has as much to do with this also.

Would the USB version of your Dac still use the reclocker as the standard version?

Thanks

As a side note I introduced my good friend who owns the standard Paradisea to PC audio/USB DAC yesterday. We hooked his Notebook PC to the USB Paradisea using ASIO4all, Secret Rabbit code and Foobar. His current digital system consists of the Arcam DV27a, Monarchy 48/96 upsampler feeding the Paradisea by way s/pdif input then out to a Promitheus preamp.

Too make a long story short.Last night he had me to put the Paradisea standard and the Arcam up for sale. The Notebook and the USB+Paradisea ($1000 combo) literally obliterated the resident digital equipment($3500)! Fellows it wasn't even close!

To see the look on his face!

It was a Kodak moment.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #357 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 04:34 pm »

It is all depending on individual taste and ears. I have compared the two DAC chips 1543 (Renaissance II) and 1545A (Paradisea). I still stands more for the 1543 dac chip than 1545A after modding my DAC. In term of dynamic I agreed 1545A is there but refined I do not think so as in Paradisea (too much low noise to my ears compared to modded Renaissance II), which you need to improve it by cancelling the low noise with some kind of replacing the caps in signal path.

GHM · « **Reply #358 on:** 10 Apr 2007, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 10 Apr 2007, 04:34 pm

It is all depending on individual taste and ears. I have compared the two DAC chips 1543 (Renaissance II) and 1545A (Paradisea). I still stands more for the 1543 dac chip than 1545A after modding my DAC. In term of dynamic I agreed 1545A is there but refined I do not think so as in Paradisea (too much low noise to my ears compared to modded Renaissance II), which you need to improve it by cancelling the low noise with some kind of replacing the caps in signal path.

You really need to hear the newer Paradisea. The change in op amps and caps including USB direct has taken this DAC to true hi end performance.The older version sounds a little murky and veiled by comparison.

I would love to do some comparos of this DAC with big named mutli thousand dollar non os dacs like Audio note and Wavelength . It ain't going to give up much if anything at all IMO. The guys at Mhdt out did themselves with this one.

I do feel going USB makes the largest improvement. If the stock unit had the USB port it would be closer in performance.

rollo · « **Reply #359 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 12:19 am »

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

rollo