[Rocket]

When someone comes to your home and totally bags your whole hifi system?

hi guys,

I advertised my Pt dac in the local readers mart the other day and yesterday received a phone call from a guy wanting to have a listen to it.

I was surprised he actually turned up (you know what they're like you give them your address and they never turn up) and brought his brand new $2500 au Arcam cdp with him to compare the Pt dac to it.

Well the long and the short of it was the guy really really insulted me, he totally trashed almost every component in my system including my custom made speakers (raven 1 tweeters and focal mid/bass drivers), aksa 100 (nirvana) amp, my modded pioneer cdp, axon cables and even my diy concrete speaker stands (he said they made the bass wooly).  He didn't say anything about my n.e.w. preamp because it was tubed.

Well you probably guess it he is a tube freak, i don't have a problem with that but he shouldn't come over to my home and bag my gear.  the worst thing is he stayed for 2 hours and i couldn't get rid of him, i could tell he wasn't going to buy the dac after the first 10 minutes.

btw the outcome between the arcam and pt dac.  he thought the pt was a little better but not worth paying $600 for it.  May'be i should have given the dac to him?

Oh well back to the trading post, anyone interested in buying my pt dac?

regards

rocket

[Pez]

OUCH!!!

I personally would have kicked his ass! Was he being overtly rude? or was he just a little eccentric? I know I can be overly critical, or at least come across that way sometimes, but never rude.

[Brad V]

Hi Rocket,

Try not to let that guy get to you. There are some people out there that never should ever get out of bed.

Cheers,

Brad

[Rocket]

hi,

I must admit he did get to me a little.  i kept thinking there must've been something wrong with my hearing as he kept saying the sound was too hard.

apparently he has a carver sunfire? tube preamp and golden tubes amplifier (i presume being tube they are softer sounding?).  Also for $600 au my pt dac was better than his arcam which he had just paid $2500 au for.

Apparently a hifi shop in perth is going to build a copy pair of proac response 1's for him.  I know the dealer and he is a real shark.

regards

rocket

[mgalusha]

I would try and disregard his comments. He obviously has different tastes in how a system should sound. Apparently he hasn't learned that some folks like a different presentation.

If you enjoy the sound of your system and it makes the music emotionally satisfying to you, screw 'em! You are the one it needs to please, not some wannabe audio critic off the street.

Just my .02.

Mike

[Hantra]

First off, the Sunfire stuff is some of the worst I have heard.  Especially the amp.  For an amp that's supposed to have like 2 gigawatts of headroom, or something stupid like that, it runs out of gas faster than my old 18 watt AN.

Secondly. . .  I never let people demo stuff that I am trying to sell, unless I am desperate.  If people demo your stuff, they'll listen to it, and FIND a reason NOT to buy it.  They'll find something they don't like, and talk themselves out of it. .

B

[nathanm]

Based on Rocket's side of the story it sounds like this guy was quite rude.  But I wouldn't waste any sleep on what the guy said.  It's way too subjective.  It's likely you could go to HIS house and think everything's messed up.  Without being there it's too difficult to tell if he was being tactful about his negative impressions of the sound or not.  If anything I would expect a complete stranger you've invited into your home to be uncommonly complimentary!  Sheesh!

The opposite happened when I sold my Norh 7.0s.  A guy drove across three states just to hear them in person.  He brought his own CDs.  All the time I had been really hating the sound of those things.  I couldn't make them do what I wanted.  But this fella came in and thought they were great.  He said "They're everything people say about them".  Meanwhile I'm over in the corner thinking to myself, "Oh god this sounds so weak!" Heh!  So aside from losing $1200 on the deal it was a good swaperoo as far as what two people felt was good sound.

[Rocket]

hi guys,

thanks for the comments, it does put things into perspective.

he wasn't overally rude but was straightforward about his views and didn't have a positive comment about the system.  it was also very hard to get rid of him, especially as he was here for 2 hours.  he did recommend kimber cables which i may consider investing in later in the year.  there are some cable manufacturers on this forum and i may try some of their products.

in the last few years i have really learnt that we all have different tastes and preferences with our hifi systems.  i prefer a more neutral presentation now and tubes don't really do it for me.  the sound that i hear from my system is  in between ss and tube, anyway that is what i hear.


may'be i need to buy some products from 8th nerve products?

regards

rocket

btw the following are what i'm planning to buy later in the year.

Pt3a modwright level 1 with monolithic power supply
cables possibly bolder, av matrix
blackhole 5 in my speakers
decent stands for the speakers

[Ferdi]

Hi Rod, I see two sides to this issue:

The guy was an ass. He was your guest and didn't behave like one. Forget him and his comments completely.

The only valid way to evaluate your system is to do it with your own ears. You can ask someone else for input but critical comments are much easier to take from someone you trust.

Looks to me like you have put together a nice system. Have fun with it or improve on it as YOU see fit.

Groeten,

Ferdi

[DVV]

When someone comes to your home and totally bags your whole hifi system? ...

Rocket, that he was rude is perfectly clear - if you don't like somebody's system, there's no need to insult the owner, just say something general and avoid direct comments.

But that you were in any special situation, you were not. Here's what happened to me, though I was just auditioning, not selling.

After installing my 1041 speakers, driven by my Karan integrated (rated at 2x180W/8 ohms), I got a few old friends to come along and bring their own music.

One said the sound was very dynamic, very much "alive", but said he was irritated by "too much detail" - ???

Another said there wasn't enough bass for his tastes - 5 minutes with the Blue Man Group CD convinced him he had boom boxes at home (he is aware his speakers are way below par in his system, I must add). The rest he liked.

The third, a sworn-to-the-death tube man, said I was an immoral bandit, because what I was listening to was essentially a SET sound without any of the SET problems and backed by solid state power. He owns Conrad-Johnson, VTL and Infinity Kappa speakers.

And so forth. As many tastes as there are people.

The REAL question is - are YOU pleased with your system? You do not need to explain your answer to anybody. Disregard a few rude specimens you are bound to encounter along the way.

Cheers,
DVV

[JohnR]

Ah, don't worry about it Rod, the guy's obviously a dick.

I don't think I ever sold anything to anyone who came around for an "audition." I've had guys say they will buy it and then if they come round to pick it up I have no probs hooking it up to confirm that it works as advertised.

What about EBay? Enough activity in Aus to get a reasonable price? You can always set a reserve. It's not heavy tho so you could easy ship it o/s as well.

[jcoat007]

As I have grown older, I find myself less patient with jerks and assholes.  I don't have a problem telling someone they are being rude to their face.  You will be amzaed at the reaction.  Most of the time people don't even know they are being this way.  I would have said something subtle to start with like, "Hey this has been a lot of fun having you over.  Maybe I can come over to your house and insult your system.  It's only fair since you've been doing that to me for the past couple of hours.  What do you say? How about Thursday at 2:00?  What's your address?".  

You could keep it going.  "With that personality I hope your are rich as hell.  I mean the only chicks that would get along with that attitude are gold digging hotties.  I bet your wife/girlfriend is hot.

Oh, I can see from your avocado green '72 Pinto that you're probably not rich.  Instead of buying all of this audio shit why don't you get some new wheels man.  I bet your wife/girlfriend is pretty ugly huh."

Hung head low, he responds "Yeah".  And you kick him in the ass on the way out the door.  

Putz.

[ABEX]

Let him think whatever he likes! He will not be back and if he does want it after second thinking tell him you have an offer $100 higher.

Why would he want to stay to listen to your system if he did not like what he heard is my question. Was he trying to feed his ego?

After telling you how bad your components were I would have shut the system off and said I can see you are not intrested and I have other matters I need to attend to. Thanks for stopping by!

Move on!

JMO

[jqp]

Hmm - my take on it:

First he is a tube freak. That is a sure sign of mental instability    .Tubes are fine but we all know that an all-tube system is usually not going to give the realistic 20Hz-20Khz reproduction we can get these days. He is used to a veiled syrupy sound with maybe some decent midrange.  This is of course an exageration but most likely some truth in it.

Second, your $600 product was admittedly better than his $2500 arcam. He should have said "wow, I am glad I came over. I guess I really don't want to buy it even though it is better"

Instead he had to stroke his little ego. And your system is somehow lacking compared to what? The "straw system" he creates in his mind? Sounds like he was just repeateing "tweaker" conventional wisdom which just doesn't apply across so many different systems. It doesn't make sense that a cement stand would make bass "wooly". That sounds like a tube freak...

[Rocket]

Hi guys,

thanks for all the comments.

John:  yes i will try ebay i have nothing to lose.  Perth is such a small market and these dacs are not well known in australia.  to be honest i hate selling  audio equipment i find it so difficult to sell and my gear is always in immaculate condition.

i'll also try and weed out the time wasters.

regards

rocket

[Carlman]

First off, the Sunfire stuff is some of the worst I have heard.  Especially the amp.  For an amp that's supposed to have like 2 gigawatts of headroom, or something stupid like that, it runs out of gas faster than my old 18 watt AN.

Secondly. . .  I never let people demo stuff that I am trying to sell, unless I am desperate.  If people demo your stuff, they'll listen to it, and FIND a reason NOT to buy it.  They'll find something they don't like, and talk themselves out of it. .

B

I couldn't agree more... If you like AKSA, how can you like Carver?  Also, ProAc is NOT the sound I'm after at all.  He may have had no intention of buying your DAC.  He sounds like someone who has lots of time to read brochures and looks for opportunities to exalt himself.  

I think everyone has said the right things... who cares about this buffoon's opinion?  I would have laughed him out of my house when he told me what amp he uses.  

I wish you luck selling it to someone that's not an ass.

-C

[TG]

He probably didn't like your rig because it didn't sound exactly like his setup, and considering the the list of equipment he owns I'd take that as a sincere compliment  

Phooey.  Life is too short to waste on the antics of such jerks.  Besides, apart from sound quality you've built some of your own gear, which means you have already derived more satisfaction from your setup than he ever will from his.

Cheers

[audiojerry]

All good points.
You have gotten some good advice, Rocket.

Based on his list of equipment and your list, I'd take your system anyday.
I would not heed any recommendation coming from him.

It's only natural to wonder if someone has assembled a system that has achieved a high level of synergy and whether you may not have chosen the right components for your own system. A lot can be learned from listening to others' systems and what they have assembled. I have tried to do this as often as possible.

Sometimes I marvel at how someone has arrived at such greatness by taking a totally different path to reach their goal; sometimes I'm shocked to see how huge investments in equipment have lead to such disappointing results. In many of these cases, I can't believe the owner doesn't realize that their rooms are abysmal acoustic spaces and no matter what they use for equipment, it will never sound any good.  

My point is, it can be helpful to get the honest opinions of others, but only if someone is sincerely asking for a critical evaluation. I have asked others to critique my system, and others have asked me. If you are asked to be brutally honest, then the recipient deserves to hear constructive criticism, but there are times when I can tell that the owner is really hoping for someone to validate his investment and is not prepared to be told anything to the contrary. It's hard to know what to do in those situations.  
 
I must admit though, that I still feel the sting of a non audiophile relative who after listening to my system said that, "If you get the chance, you should really go check out the Bose system; it is awesome!"

[hmen]

 This guy sounds like a real moron. It seems like he was more interested in making himself look sophisticated than buying something. First of all, if I spent $2500 on a cdp I'd try to find one that sounds good without a dac. And how did he know it was your DIY speaker stands and not something else that made the bass sound "wooly"?  And if he trashed all your other components how does he know that the dac wouldn't sound great in his "superior" system?  The fact he stayed two hours listening to your obviously inferior system makes it sound like he might be a little lonely. I would advise you that the next time somebody comes to your house to buy equipment that you have a friend call you about half an hour after the guy is supposed to show up so if the guy is a jerk you can say you have an emergency. It's a great way to get rid of an unwanted guest.

[nathanm]

Well Rocket if I were you and I had this guy's e-mail address I'd send him a link to this thread!  Two pages and counting of people lining up to take a whack at this fella!  Ouch!  I'm almost starting to feel sorry for this guy!