Advice sought on BIG power (with finesse, on a budget!)

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 10:16 am »

Quote from: Karsten on 3 Nov 2006, 08:09 pm

Hi Russell,

Have you tried to measure the actual SPL you are getting? One thing with the SP speakers is that the distortion is very low, this can fool the ear to perceive that it is not very loud. Sometimes I have to talk to myself to get an idea about how loud it really is aa

Anyway, you are right. A lot of power does some good things...... A good compromise between power and finess is the Belles 350A Reference. A couple of bridged 150A References will do the trick as well but I find the 350AR sweeter sounding with plenty of impact. You can check the fresh review here:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/belles_350a_reference.htm

Best regards,
Karsten

Thanks, Karsten, I am looking into the Belles 350A as well as the Moscode 401HR, not to speak of a secondhand McCormack DNA 500. I am also considering waiting for the UcD 700 monoblocks that Kevin Haskins is bringing to market in 8 weeks. Oh, and I have even contemplated building a set of the 300D modules by Greg Ball/SKA.

As to the levels where I start hearing the amps struggling - it seems to be around 85 dB, measured on an old analog Radio Shack meter, C weighting, fast. This is at 6 feet from the speakers. My monitoring situation is very clean and revealing, though, with low ambient sound levels, huge wideband trap behind the speakers (which absorbs some energy, I'm sure) and inward curved side walls with a radius of 14 feet/4.5m. The front 2/3 of the room is perfectly symmetrical.
Russell

zybar · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 12:11 pm »

Russell,

If you want to enjoy the music and just really connect with your system, I highly recommend stretching the budget and going with the Moscode 401HR. I am extremely happy with this amp and you can flavor it to a certain extent by changing tubes.

I have owned the DNA-500, Rowland 201's, CI Audio D-200's, Dodd 120's and listened to the Pass, Classe, Belles (older version) and ATI amps.

Putting cost aside, I would take the Moscode. Heck, I am taking the Moscode over the BAT VK-600SE.

All of that being said...I am thinking you have some other issue here.

For example, my speakers are 85 db sensitive in a 30x17 room, the Dodd 120's (120 watts) have no problem playing cleanly to almost 100db levels even with me losing headroom by doing room correction via a TacT 2.2x! Put in the Moscode or BAT and it gets even better.

So while I do think you can absolutely do better on amplification, I do think you should solve your "loudness" issue first.

Good luck.

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 12:46 pm »

So George, what does the Moscode sound like? I have a PS Audio GCA500 modded by Underwood and was considering Dodd 120's or the Moscode. But after sitting through the tube versus SS test at RMAF, I'm not sure I can hear a difference. I can hear the difference my Cary SLP98P has made and easily hear a difference kicking in and out the tube outputs on the Cary 303/300.

With HT3's coming I want to be ready and deliver them the right sound. Presently the VR4's are singing on the GCA500.

zybar · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 12:49 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 4 Nov 2006, 12:46 pm

So George, what does the Moscode sound like? I have a PS Audio GCA500 modded by Underwood and was considering Dodd 120's or the Moscode. But after sitting through the tube versus SS test at RMAF, I'm not sure I can hear a difference. I can hear the difference my Cary SLP98P has made and easily hear a difference kicking in and out the tube outputs on the Cary 303/300.

With HT3's coming I want to be ready and deliver them the right sound. Presently the VR4's are singing on the GCA500.

I posted my thoughts on the Dodd and Moscode amps over in the Critics Circle. Both will do very well with the HT3's.

George

brj · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 05:22 pm »

George, did you ever post your thoughts on the Moscode vs. the BAT? If you did, I must have missed it....

Thanks!

avahifi · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 05:32 pm »

For what it is worth, if you can come up with a Hafler P-500 amplifier (pro version of DH-500) we can turn that into an OmegaStar 500EX with about 400 watts per channel into 8 ohms and much more into 4 ohms. The P500 has a bigger power transformer than the standard DH-500 which means less supply drop at full power and thus a lot more power. Note that we normally remove all the "pro" input and output fittings and supply it simply with standard audio connections (heavy duty gold plated RCA input jacks, 5-way binding post output jacks), the Hafler balanced line connections were a real clusterf---.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. Price is reasonable, performance is not.

zybar · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: brj on 4 Nov 2006, 05:22 pm

George, did you ever post your thoughts on the Moscode vs. the BAT? If you did, I must have missed it....

Thanks!

Not yet...

I'll try to write it on the plane flight to Ireland on Monday night.

The BAT is still my favorite solid state amp by far, but...I am really digging having tubes back in the system.

George

oldzmann · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 06:10 pm »

George, have you heard the Parasound JC-1's? What was your impression?
Thanks

BikeWNC · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 06:21 pm »

What about the Bel Canto Ref1000 amps?

Andy

toobluvr · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 4 Nov 2006, 05:34 pm

but...I am really digging having tubes back in the system.

George

No surprise there!

Welcome back to the dark side!

I'm actually surprised you were able to stay away so long.

goodbye hi-fi....hello music!

Scott F. · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 4 Nov 2006, 06:49 pm

goodbye hi-fi....hello music!

Can I hear an AMEN Brothers

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 07:21 pm »

Quote from: Scott F. on 4 Nov 2006, 07:15 pm

Quote from: toobluvr on 4 Nov 2006, 06:49 pm
goodbye hi-fi....hello music!

Can I hear an AMEN Brothers

I personally think people should own all three types of amps.....SS.....Tube.....and Hybrid.
Remember....."Variety" is the spice of life......

Papajin · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 07:24 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 4 Nov 2006, 07:21 pm

I personally think people should own all three types of amps.....SS.....Tube.....and Hybrid.
Remember....."Variety" is the spice of life......

Thanks for personally volunteering to bankroll all of us in this endeaver.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 07:29 pm »

Quote from: Papajin on 4 Nov 2006, 07:24 pm

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 4 Nov 2006, 07:21 pm
I personally think people should own all three types of amps.....SS.....Tube.....and Hybrid.
Remember....."Variety" is the spice of life......

Thanks for personally volunteering to bankroll all of us in this endeaver.

No problem....guess I'll work a little longer everyday.....

opnly bafld · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 08:42 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 4 Nov 2006, 07:21 pm

I personally think people should own all three types of amps.....SS.....Tube.....and Hybrid.
Remember....."Variety" is the spice of life......

Count me in.

How about different types of speakers to mix and match.
OB - single driver in box- and big multiway speakers.

Lin

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 4 Nov 2006, 05:32 pm

For what it is worth, if you can come up with a Hafler P-500 amplifier (pro version of DH-500) we can turn that into an OmegaStar 500EX with about 400 watts per channel into 8 ohms and much more into 4 ohms. The P500 has a bigger power transformer than the standard DH-500 which means less supply drop at full power and thus a lot more power. Note that we normally remove all the "pro" input and output fittings and supply it simply with standard audio connections (heavy duty gold plated RCA input jacks, 5-way binding post output jacks), the Hafler balanced line connections were a real clusterf---.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. Price is reasonable, performance is not.

nice mention here (3rd down):

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7956&an=0&page=0

amplifierguru · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 09:04 pm »

Hi Russell,

Following up from our discussion, I will be looking to package the GB300D's as a monoblock finished product within weeks, so they are no longer limited to those who can/want to build kits. It's just a matter of how to optimise the power supply for 8 ohms and 300W or the same for 4 ohms.

Cheers,
Greg

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Nov 2006, 09:17 pm »

Russell.....Since you have had the TP's awhile....and since many have not heard them.....care to comment on them ? (likes and dislikes)
Their bookshelf size....right ?

Thanks......

Chris

zybar · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Nov 2006, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: oldzmann on 4 Nov 2006, 06:10 pm

George, have you heard the Parasound JC-1's? What was your impression?
Thanks

I haven't had the JC-1's in my house, but have heard them enough at other's + shows to get a handle on their "sound".

I found them to be too warm and fuzzy for my tastes. THere is a haze that obscures too much of the music.

Supposedly, there are some relatively simple and inexpensive mods that can be done to them to improve them a significant amount, but I haven't heard a pair that have been modified.

George

zybar · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Nov 2006, 12:34 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 4 Nov 2006, 06:49 pm

Quote from: zybar on 4 Nov 2006, 05:34 pm

but...I am really digging having tubes back in the system.

George

No surprise there!
Welcome back to the dark side!
I'm actually surprised you were able to stay away so long.

goodbye hi-fi....hello music!

I know, I know...

I never should have left the flock....I am just glad to be back.

Now if I had only kept all my previous NOS tubes!

George